Top tier fuel a cleaning additives

Mk_GTI · Oct 5, 2018

Top tier fuel keeps the fuel system and tops of pistons cleaner, but does little for the intake valve carbon build up.

heiney9 said:
Unscientific evidence I have: My 2009 MK5 GTi is at 91K miles and I've used top tier fuel and so far no carbon issues that I am aware of.

My 2010 Mk6 GTI made it to 87k before needing the valve scrub. It think how the car is driven affects when the detrimental amount of buildup occurs. Lower mileage cars with mostly short trips and few, if any, WOT blasts seem to have the issue much earlier.

From what I've learned, a highway cruise for 20mins with the motor around 3k RPM's every so often with a few WOT to redline blasts seems to help. The periodic "Italian Tune Up" is actually effective for DI motors.

Mike-E said:
I would not recommend that method now.

That's actually an effective way of prolonging the cleaning interval. Just (safely) floor it on a highway on-ramp. For DI motors, it's not an IF but a WHEN it will need the valve cleaning.

Jdreg · Oct 5, 2018

Would this be evidence or hype
http://www.engineprofessional.com/TB/TB042015-1.pdf

heiney9 · Oct 5, 2018

Jdreg said:
Would this be evidence or hype
http://www.engineprofessional.com/TB/TB042015-1.pdf

A good summary, however, the valves shown are not from a DI car. I think using a good oil (I have used M1 synthetic since day one in both my cars), replacing the pcv system at regular intervals so it's working at its peak, running the car hard occasionally and using top tier fuel can help prolong having to have the intake valves cleaned on a DI car.

That's my personal opinion, and so far it rings true for me with my DI cars.

Mk_GTI · Oct 5, 2018

Jdreg said:
Would this be evidence or hype
http://www.engineprofessional.com/TB/TB042015-1.pdf

It's certainly evidence for a non-direct injection motor. It's doesn't apply with DI motors without secondary port fuel injectors because fuel is not sprayed onto the intake valves.

I have always used top tier fuel and still had to have the valves cleaned due to running poorly and CEL from carbon buildup at 87k miles on my 2010 GTI.

North America market Mk7's still do not have PFI to clean the valves, but for some reason rest of the world cars have it. Can't find any answer as to why other than guessing it's to keep build costs down and easier to pass EPA tests.

Mk_GTI · Oct 5, 2018

Jdreg said:
If this is just hype why would Audi select top tier as their selected gas, saying it produces all the claimed benefits. What in it for Audi.

Well performing vehicles & fewer warranty claims = happier customers and repeat sales

IES99 · Oct 5, 2018

Costco

ReadTheBook said:
From what I've read on /r/costco, they also mix in their proprietary additive blend on site as their tanks are filled to ensure the freshest mix of products, plus because they sell so much, they're delivered fresh product daily.

Because it is located closely to my work more than 90% of the gas that has gone into the GTI has been Costco 93 octane. I know I'm probably a sucker for marketing but seeing the "Top Tier" sticker on the pump is a little reassuring.

ElectricEye · Oct 5, 2018

vjmvjm said:
Different, more, or both? That's the problem, there is no documentation. It's all just marketing hype (hot air from the oil companies). And no evidence (facts, data) from the oil companies that the result is any better than with fuel that's not Top-Tier. Read the ads, it's all non-committal, non-specific language.

BTW, I do regularly use Top-Tier fuel from Costco because they have the best prices.

There's plenty of documentation - you need to do some more research.
Actual documentation of the cleaning performance of top tier fuel.

volks6 · Oct 5, 2018

KevinC said:
and replace their fuel filters at proper intervals.

All big name stations replace their filters on a regular basis. They have to be within flow regulations for the weights and measures government inspections. Which come around monthly. If they don't flow properly they are closed right then and there and can't open again until they pass inspection.

When I was in college I used to manage a gas station so I do know about these things.

volks6 · Oct 5, 2018

heiney9 said:
Naysayers need to learn how to use the internet. It is quite amusing reading some of your posts. I especially like the one about comparing printing to fuel. Real informative and they have SO much in common.

To each their own. But let's not be ignorant on the subject and then try and sell your POV.

There are different additives and/or more additives to top tier fuel. Many of the additives were co-developed with automobile companies like BMW, VAG, Volvo, etc. They had input as to what would work best in the formulations.

Sheesh, get your learn on before you just come in here blowing hot air.

So where is your facts and figures to prove that I'm wrong?

There are 11 petroleum refineries in the us. They supply everyone.

In NJ there are 2 refineries that supply all the stations in the state and the nearby states. So you are going to tell me that because a "Top Tier" uses a certain additive it's any better than the normal gas. Bullshit.

Plus in the end since the gas never touches the intake valves on the EA888 it's really moot.

Put whatever gas you are comfortable buying. If you want to spend more for some title go ahead. But in the end gas is gas and you are full of it.

Mk_GTI · Oct 5, 2018

volks6 said:
Put whatever gas you are comfortable buying. If you want to spend more for some title go ahead. But in the end gas is gas and you are full of it.

True, gas is gas before it is purchased by retailers. All gasolines come from the same refineries. The difference between top tier and non is the additive packages blended in by the seller (i.e. BP, Shell, Mobil, etc). Sure, there is advertising that puff up the benefits of these additives, but they are effective.

The other difference is non-top tier stations may not move as much fuel, meaning moisture and varnish and poorer quality stock, which results is poor engine performance in the short term and potential problems in the long term.

Consumer reports agrees: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-maintenance/study-shows-top-tier-gasoline-worth-extra-price/

ElectricEye · Oct 5, 2018

volks6 said:
So where is your facts and figures to prove that I'm wrong?

There are 11 petroleum refineries in the us. They supply everyone.

In NJ there are 2 refineries that supply all the stations in the state and the nearby states. So you are going to tell me that because a "Top Tier" uses a certain additive it's any better than the normal gas. Bullshit.

Plus in the end since the gas never touches the intake valves on the EA888 it's really moot.

Put whatever gas you are comfortable buying. If you want to spend more for some title go ahead. But in the end gas is gas and you are full of it.

"Yes" because it has certain additives at certain quantities it cleans better and keeps engines cleaner - longer.

That's how these things work.

vjmvjm · Oct 5, 2018

ElectricEye said:
There's plenty of documentation - you need to do some more research.
Actual documentation of the cleaning performance of top tier fuel.

I've done the research. Some pretty pictures. But no independent tests that show direct comparisons between top-tier and other fuels. If you have other information, please provide some links. And a "laboratory test" with a top-tier fuel vs. some unspecified fuel (which might not actually meet today's minimum standards) doesn't count. And the color of the intake valves doesn't matter, it's all about how the engine actually performs.

vjmvjm · Oct 5, 2018

ElectricEye said:
"Yes" because it has certain additives at certain quantities it cleans better and keeps engines cleaner - longer.

That's how these things work.

Because the oil company told you so. Right? You don't need more, you just need enough. And no oil company has provided any proof that top-tier additives are any better than the minimum required additives. "Trust, but verify." Particularly for direct injection engines.

ManInTheClouds · Oct 5, 2018

vjmvjm said:
Because the oil company told you so. Right? You don't need more, you just need enough. And no oil company has provided any proof that top-tier additives are any better than the minimum required additives. "Trust, but verify." Particularly for direct injection engines.

This has been posted a dozen times, but:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTaBngvsPrc

Notice the difference in BP premium and Shell premium?

Wonder why that is....

Let's not also forget a decade or two ago, BMW was replacing engines at 30k due to the crappy sulphuric fuel eating away at cylinder wall linings.

ElectricEye · Oct 5, 2018

vjmvjm said:
Because the oil company told you so. Right? You don't need more, you just need enough. And no oil company has provided any proof that top-tier additives are any better than the minimum required additives. "Trust, but verify." Particularly for direct injection engines.

Yeah "big oil" told me, like "big pharma" told me to get vaccinated.

Now that I know what I'm dealing with...

Top tier fuel a cleaning additives

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