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Old 06-23-2018, 04:39 PM   #1
ashmostro
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Curious behavior depending on auto vs manual DSG mode (2018 R)

My 2018 R is tuned with a Unitronic Stage 1+ tune. There is no TCU tune available from Uni yet, for the 7 speed.

I honestly donít recall if this behavior existed prior to the tune - it may have. The behavior is that if I do WOT shifts using the paddles, I get great, mostly seamless acceleration. If I keep the car in S/auto I get a post-shift ďlagĒ where it feels like the boost has all gotten dumped and the intake system needs to repressurize again before you get full acceleration potential.

I imagine this could be a variety of things, possibly not even related to boost pressure. Is this a known issue, and is it related to the tune?

Thanks,
-Ash
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Old 06-23-2018, 05:09 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
My 2018 R is tuned with a Unitronic Stage 1+ tune. There is no TCU tune available from Uni yet, for the 7 speed.



I honestly donít recall if this behavior existed prior to the tune - it may have. The behavior is that if I do WOT shifts using the paddles, I get great, mostly seamless acceleration. If I keep the car in S/auto I get a post-shift ďlagĒ where it feels like the boost has all gotten dumped and the intake system needs to repressurize again before you get full acceleration potential.



I imagine this could be a variety of things, possibly not even related to boost pressure. Is this a known issue, and is it related to the tune?



Thanks,

-Ash


Itís a problem with the DSG7 and has nothing to do with your tune. There are a few posts on here about the problem. I had the same problem with my 18 R. I got so fed up with it that I traded it in on a new left over 17 R with the DSG6. Hopefully the can fix the issue...


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Old 06-23-2018, 05:19 PM   #3
ashmostro
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Wow that's interesting! So the dsg is what, affecting the electronic throttle and closing it when in full auto Wot post-shifts?

What's it reacting to? Fear of overrev?

Thanks!
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:19 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
Wow that's interesting! So the dsg is what, affecting the electronic throttle and closing it when in full auto Wot post-shifts?

What's it reacting to? Fear of overrev?

Thanks!


I have no idea what the problem is. With my car, and others who have posted about the problem, it seems to occur whenever you put WOT demands on the car. In my case it happened even when demanding WOT in as low a gear as 3rd gear. The shop foreman tried to say it was because the car was trying to drop too many gears at once until I told him it did it in 3rd gear as well. It didnít matter which mode I was in D, S, D-manual or S-manual. It always did the same thing when I put WOT demands on it. It feels like the engine isnít getting enough fuel and the car falls on its face. Not a good feeling when passing a tractor trailer and youíve miss judged on coming traffic and need to put the petal to the floor....only to have the car hesitate and stumble. No issues with my DSG6 no matter what gear Iím in.


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Old 06-23-2018, 09:44 PM   #5
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Let me be clearer about the symptoms though. I'm not talking about inital response in reaction to going WOT. I'm talking about post shift power reduction right after a WOT upshift.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:24 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
Let me be clearer about the symptoms though. I'm not talking about inital response in reaction to going WOT. I'm talking about post shift power reduction right after a WOT upshift.


Canít help you there. I donít think I ever experienced that. Mind you my car fell on its face whenever any WOT demands were put on it so it may have had the power reduction after a WOT upshift, and I would never have known. Perhaps thatís what was happening in those times where I felt the symptoms were worse then others.

Really not sure why VW went to a 7spd. Maybe it makes a difference after 70mph but my MPG are no different in the DSG6 then they were in my DSG7.


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Old 06-23-2018, 11:55 PM   #7
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It looks like the issues on the MK7.5's are finally surfacing. Please keep us posted as I am getting ready to buy my DSG Golf-R pretty soon (to replace my DSG GTI), given that there aren't too many issues.
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Old 06-24-2018, 12:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashmostro View Post
My 2018 R is tuned with a Unitronic Stage 1+ tune. There is no TCU tune available from Uni yet, for the 7 speed.

I honestly donít recall if this behavior existed prior to the tune - it may have. The behavior is that if I do WOT shifts using the paddles, I get great, mostly seamless acceleration. If I keep the car in S/auto I get a post-shift ďlagĒ where it feels like the boost has all gotten dumped and the intake system needs to repressurize again before you get full acceleration potential.

I imagine this could be a variety of things, possibly not even related to boost pressure. Is this a known issue, and is it related to the tune?

Thanks,
-Ash
I know exactly what you are experiencing. I have noticed the same issue. I believe this requires a software update as I know VW uses the 7 spd DSG in its other brands and to my knowledge don't have the same complaint? We are early adopters and I am sure this will get addressed. I have been driving my car in mostly Race Sport mode and it seems the issue you described has gotten much better as the computer seems to be learning that type driving style.
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Old 06-24-2018, 12:53 AM   #9
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I know exactly what you are experiencing. I have noticed the same issue. I believe this requires a software update as I know VW uses the 7 spd DSG in its other brands and to my knowledge don't have the same complaint? We are early adopters and I am sure this will get addressed. I have been driving my car in mostly Race Sport mode and it seems the issue you described has gotten much better as the computer seems to be learning that type driving style.


The DSG doesnít Ďlearní driving styles, from what Iíve read.


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Old 06-24-2018, 03:17 AM   #10
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The DSG doesnít Ďlearní driving styles, from what Iíve read.
I believe it does actually.
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Old 06-24-2018, 04:13 AM   #11
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I believe it does actually.
It doesn't. Otherwise it wouldn't shift up so early for many people.

See the third item in the "Things Every Driver Should Probably Understand About Their DSG" section:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ips-and-Tricks

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Old 06-24-2018, 07:09 AM   #12
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Pretty much all automated transmissions make some adjustments to driving style. That doesn't mean it will shift @ 5k in D at partial throttle but some adjustments are made.
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Old 06-24-2018, 01:01 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Golfs everyday View Post
It looks like the issues on the MK7.5's are finally surfacing. Please keep us posted as I am getting ready to buy my DSG Golf-R pretty soon (to replace my DSG GTI), given that there aren't too many issues.


Keep your GTI with the DSG6. Iíve had a 2011 GTI, 2012 GTI, 2017 GTI, all of which had the 6MT. The DSG7 takes the driving pleasure away from the car in my opinion. Iíve posted on here about various things since Iíve owned the R with the DSG7 which I traded in for a new 17 R with the DSG6. Iíd take the 6 over the 7 any day of the week. The 7 constantly shifts from 7-6-7-6-7 on the slightest incline, goes through the gears like a tractor trailer and before you know it youíre in 6th, is constantly in too high a gear so whenever you want real power youíre dropping gears AND it shifts into first when coming to a rolling stop. In 30 yrs of driving manuals Iíve never shifted into first gear unless Iím stopped at a light. Those are the simple things that will probably not be fixed with a software update. The falling on its face when demanding power is ridiculous and completely unacceptable.


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Old 06-24-2018, 07:30 PM   #14
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I'm a Golf and DSG novice but this seems like an anomaly to me rather than a problem with the car as designed/built.

WOT shifts using the paddles should reasonably mimic WOT shifts in S mode with the exception that the human is determining the shift points rather than the ECU. And since there is no shortage of acceleration videos/reviews that show the car accelerating just fine with WOT (be it using launch control or not) it seems odd that the car would feel like it was bogging down (my terminology) in S when that should be the absolute fastest the car can shift which is pretty much substantiated by the 4.5s 0-60 times and reviews showing the car accelerates properly, quickly and without issue. I would think using the paddles would be the problem in that the human was selecting poor shift points as compared to the ECU.

So if it's bogging down in S, that definitely seems to indicate an issue that shouldn't happen.

I've gone over the 1000 mile break-in period and have not tried LC yet but I have tromped on it and the car accelerated just fine as it went up through the gears. I did not notice any post-shift lag as ashmostro encountered.
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Old 06-24-2018, 08:03 PM   #15
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Can you guys post your build dates? Perhaps VW remapped it on the more recent builds.
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Old 06-24-2018, 08:16 PM   #16
ashmostro
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Originally Posted by kevinkar View Post
I'm a Golf and DSG novice but this seems like an anomaly to me rather than a problem with the car as designed/built.

WOT shifts using the paddles should reasonably mimic WOT shifts in S mode with the exception that the human is determining the shift points rather than the ECU. And since there is no shortage of acceleration videos/reviews that show the car accelerating just fine with WOT (be it using launch control or not) it seems odd that the car would feel like it was bogging down (my terminology) in S when that should be the absolute fastest the car can shift which is pretty much substantiated by the 4.5s 0-60 times and reviews showing the car accelerates properly, quickly and without issue. I would think using the paddles would be the problem in that the human was selecting poor shift points as compared to the ECU.

So if it's bogging down in S, that definitely seems to indicate an issue that shouldn't happen.

I've gone over the 1000 mile break-in period and have not tried LC yet but I have tromped on it and the car accelerated just fine as it went up through the gears. I did not notice any post-shift lag as ashmostro encountered.
Well worded and agree with your analysis.

The only thing I can think of is perhaps in S mode the dsg is I itating the shift command at too high of an rpm which triggers a fuel cutoff that shows up during or right after the shift. Whereas with paddles I'm requesting the shift around where the tach swings past 5.5k.
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Old 06-24-2018, 08:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedSleep View Post
It doesn't. Otherwise it wouldn't shift up so early for many people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTsLiKeAnEgG View Post
Pretty much all automated transmissions make some adjustments to driving style. That doesn't mean it will shift @ 5k in D at partial throttle but some adjustments are made.
George at BMS said it is a good idea to put your piggyback on as soon as you have had the DSG reset/updated/flashed as it DOES learn the new power shift points etc.
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