Why is the Golf Gti/R called an econobox?

well said

Shane_Anigans said:

Like, how boring is your life when the idea of owning a Chevy Traverse makes you excited?

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....says the guy with a Traverse

snobrdrdan said:

....says the guy with a Traverse

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You have my deepest sympathies.

TheGreekFreak said:

I think a base golf is pretty much a nicely optioned econobox.

If you own a golf, GTI, R, whatever, and love it, wipe your ass with the title people stick on it. Who cares if it makes you smile....

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1) I disagree. The term "econobox" is uniquely American, because the "small" cars that the Big 3 sold back in the 1970s and 80s were terrible. It almost seemed like they were designed with contempt for their buyers, as if selling them a bad small car would somehow make them come back later and purchase a larger one that was nicer. Meanwhile, every other country had cars that were both small and nice, we just didn't get many of the really nice ones. The Golf isn't the cheapest or smallest car that VW makes, and even the smaller ones are designed by people who enjoy driving. But, this is 'Murica, where small cars are considered part of a communist plot or something.



2) Amen. The average person in this country knows dick-all about cars, so it's a waste of time to take their opinions seriously.

Shane_Anigans said:

Personally, I piss on the opinions of most everyone else anyway. I wanted a hot hatch, while everyone around me seems to be dreaming of a new SUV/crossover. Like, how boring is your life when the idea of owning a Chevy Traverse makes you excited?

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In that case a person who owned several Hondas wouldnt be an enthusiast as well [emoji6]

A person is not an enthusiast based on what he drives but just based on who he is.

TheGreekFreak said:

I think a base golf is pretty much a nicely optioned econobox. Lumping a GTI into that doesn't fit due to the bigger engine, turbo, and other performance features. Would make less sense calling a $40K R with almoat 300hp from the factory the same as a golf lol they just all look really similar.

As mentioned, the focus RS shares the same body as the econobox base focus but is in a whole different class competing against higher end cars than a focus should. Same concept except VW is more conservative on the styling.

I think it comes down to the car's intended purpose more so than how nice the interior is for the price. A GTI and R are marketed as performance hot hatches. A golf is marketed as a well equipped good value economy commuter. While we all know its much better than some POS yaris or [insert economy crapbox], the regular golf is undoubtedly an econobox at it's core.



Better question is who the hell cares? A guy with a well optioned GTI or R could squeeze into an entry level mercedes or BMW for more show than go. I could care less of what people think of my lowly GTI, I bought it for myself to enjoy driving and looking at. I love the idea of some of the older air cooled porsches not because they've skyrocketed to collector car status or because I dream of flashing them around to show off but just because I think they're...cool. Like my GTI, I would would one of those for the feeling it gives me driving or looking at whether people think it's an expensive toy or some old piece of shit (unfortunately the former).

If you own a golf, GTI, R, whatever, and love it, wipe your ass with the title people stick on it. Who cares if it makes you smile....

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The suspension and engine upgrades in the GTI and R do not elevate those two trims out of an econobox category that the Golf is not in anyway.

Shane_Anigans said:

1) I disagree. The term "econobox" is uniquely American, because the "small" cars that the Big 3 sold back in the 1970s and 80s were terrible. It almost seemed like they were designed with contempt for their buyers, as if selling them a bad small car would somehow make them come back later and purchase a larger one that was nicer. Meanwhile, every other country had cars that were both small and nice, we just didn't get many of the really nice ones. The Golf isn't the cheapest or smallest car that VW makes, and even the smaller ones are designed by people who enjoy driving. But, this is 'Murica, where small cars are considered part of a communist plot or something.



2) Amen. The average person in this country knows dick-all about cars, so it's a waste of time to take their opinions seriously.

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You're right, the "econobox" thing is a purely US thing.

In the rest of the world, you can option any small car with all the things that raise a car out the "econobox" origins. The UP!, Polo or whatnot can be optioned with driver assistance aids, nice seats and electronics. Here, you can only get those things on larger cars. Parking sensors on a Cruze? Decent audio? Wheels?

Econo Box cars do not cost $34,000 like a GTI Autobahn.
Econo Box only in size.

The base Fiesta is an econo Box.

Shane_Anigans said:

A couple of my friends (one with a 2009 Fusion and one with a 2009 335i) refer to my car as "what a rich high-schooler drives."

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Irony of that statement for me being that I think my highschool's rich kids had way more low/mid trim 3 series cars than GTIs. In fact I don't think there were many VWs besides the occasional Jetta or New Beetle... Here in the Midwest wealthy kids drive big trucks, luxury SUVs, or occasional high end muscle cars.

vj123 said:

In that case a person who owned several Hondas wouldnt be an enthusiast as well [emoji6]

A person is not an enthusiast based on what he drives but just based on who he is.

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List of Hondas I've owned over the years:

1990 CRX Si (x2)
1991 Civic Si
2002 RSX Type-S
2009 Civic Si (x2)
2011 Civic Si


The RSX and the later Civics all came with an engine that sang its way up to 8000RPM, and 6-speed manuals. The Civics also came with Torsen LSDs as standard. So yeah, it is possible to own many Hondas and still be an enthusiast. People who don't know cars look at it and think "oh, it's just a Civic," while people who do, recognize them for what they are. My track instructor at HPDE thought my car was fun to drive, and this is a guy whose track car is a 1983 gray-market 930 Turbo that's been boosted up to something like 350HP.

It's possible to be a car enthusiast and get stuck with a crap car, but I think most enthusiasts find a way to get a fun car that's still within budget, even if it means a bit of compromise. For example, my cousin-in-law has a pair of child seats in the back of his 911.

But that's all off-topic anyway. What I'm talking about is the sort of person who doesn't know or care much about cars at all, and so just purchases the largest box they can find that they can afford. No concern whatsoever for how it takes corners, how well the brakes work, acceleration, etc. (Most of them don't want to accelerate quickly anyway, since that might spill their latte.)

I think this thread is vaguely aimed at me so I'll indulge.

To me, the GTI is a car platformed on an economy car, I.e. econobox. There's no disrespect meant in that, but it is what it is. Just like a WRX is an Impreza, the RS and the ST are both Foci, etc. They're all fast, fun cars built off of basic economy platforms. Very much akin to the original muscle cars where they took a boring car, threw a big motor in it, and made it fun.

And if it's not an "econobox", then what is it? It's not a luxury car. It's not a sports car either. It's a fun little hatch with a lot of utility and a powerful motor for what it is.

RichardCranium said:

Just like a WRX is an Impreza

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While the WRX and Impreza used to be build on the same platform, thus Subaru Impreza WRX and Impreza WRX STI, for a few years (10ish, maybe more, late 90's to early 2010's I believe) they were not built on the same chassis (This is why you had models like the Impreza Sport Hatch which was built on the same chassis as the WRX/STI, unlike the normal Impreza, I think some even had the EJ25). However just like VW, Subaru is going to a unified chassis, even if the STI still uses a 25 year old engine in the EJ25... while the WRX now uses the DI FA20.

RichardCranium said:

And if it's not an "econobox", then what is it? It's not a luxury car. It's not a sports car either. It's a fun little hatch with a lot of utility and a powerful motor for what it is.

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A hot hatch. It has been called that since the late 80s. And if it's not an "econobox", then what is it? It's not a luxury car. It's not a sports car either. It's a fun little hatch with a lot of utility and a powerful motor for what it is.[/QUOTE]"]Hot Hatch

RichardCranium said:

They're all fast, fun cars built off of basic economy platforms. Very much akin to the original muscle cars where they took a boring car, threw a big motor in it, and made it fun.

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So what would you call the car with the lower HP engine, was it still a muscle car? I believe they took "typical commuter cars" and then threw big engines in them, the Auto industry took notice and so on so forth. My point being that if the Golf is a typical commuter car, then the GTI would be a muscle car with your definition, although like I said the world calls it a hot hatch instead.

RichardCranium said:

I think this thread is vaguely aimed at me so I'll indulge.

To me, the GTI is a car platformed on an economy car, I.e. econobox. There's no disrespect meant in that, but it is what it is. Just like a WRX is an Impreza, the RS and the ST are both Foci, etc. They're all fast, fun cars built off of basic economy platforms. Very much akin to the original muscle cars where they took a boring car, threw a big motor in it, and made it fun.

And if it's not an "econobox", then what is it? It's not a luxury car. It's not a sports car either. It's a fun little hatch with a lot of utility and a powerful motor for what it is.

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Rubbish. The Golf may have been an "economy" car back in the 1970s, but anything smaller than container ship was considered "economy" compared to the mammoth vehicles Detroit was churning out back in the 1970s. Everywhere else in the world, the Golf was, and is, a standard family car.


But since this is America, everyone past a certain age just naturally refers to any small car as an "econobox," which is part of the reason GM went bankrupt, Chrysler is owned by Italians, and Ford has given up on selling anything besides SUVs and pickup trucks in North America. If they'd taken small cars seriously, they'd have been able to compete with the import brands for young buyers, who would continue to buy their products for years to come. Instead, they built shitboxes that could only have been designed and built with mockery and contempt for their target market, because it seems impossible that any group of sane people could do such a piss-poor job of trying to compete with a company like Honda, whose most popular car came in exactly 4 different colors.

So what is a GTI? I'd argue that it is the modern sports car, from the perspective that it's a lot more fun than an ordinary car, yet costs roughly the same money. There was a time when someone could own a sports car on an average single income, back in the 1980s when a 300ZX or Supra or RX7 could be had for family sedan money, just without the back seats and some other small sacrifices. These days, if you want a sporty car that doesn't share a platform with a compact car or sedan, you're left with the BRZ/GT86 twins, the MX-5, and the Mustang. Everything else is north of $60k, and for that you're only getting a Boxster with no options. Again, I blame America for that, since the motorists here seem to care more about cupholders and a soft ride than they do about any sort of performance.

Shane_Anigans said:

You have my deepest sympathies.

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With a 3rd kid due to arrive any day now (June 1st)....I didn't have a choice

The Passat, and the sweet sweet VR6 sounds, keeps me happy though

snobrdrdan said:

With a 3rd kid due to arrive any day now (June 1st)....I didn't have a choice

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Congratulations! Seriously though, the new Traverse at least isn't awful to look at. My friends bought one last year, and they've only got 2 kids, but apparently, as kids get older, they acquire friends, and if your kids want to bring those friends along when they go places, you pretty much need a 7-seater.



And you really don't want a C-Max.