2013R
Drag Race Newbie
- Location
- Virginia Beach, VA
i suppose if one has temps coming down to 10-15 above ambient on every pull, they need not worry about this sensor being a problem at all.
7
BMS Intercooler
- Thread starter dlau9
- Start date
My IAT read ambient temp before I actually started my engine today! Previously it was like 10 or 20 degrees higher than ambient. If your customer is seeing that, then the T MAP is likely bad also. It's such an easy sensor to swap that it's totally worth a try.
Here is my comparison.
3 pulls in third with stock intercooler at 72 degrees F ambient. With all mods in Sig, minus BMS IC.
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/no-ic-first-3rd-gear-pull?log=0&data=1-4
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/no-ic-second-3rd-gear-pull?log=0&data=1-4
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/no-ic-third-3rd-gear-pull?log=0&data=1-4
And 3 pulls in third with the BMS Cooler with 76 degree F.
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/ic-first-3rd-gear-pull-76?log=0&data=1-4
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/ic-second-3rd-gear-pull-76?log=0&data=1-4
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/ic-third-3rd-gear-pull-76?log=0&data=1-4
And a cruise at 65mph with 76 F ambient
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/65-mph-cruise-76?log=0&data=1-4
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
3 pulls in third with stock intercooler at 72 degrees F ambient. With all mods in Sig, minus BMS IC.
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/no-ic-first-3rd-gear-pull?log=0&data=1-4
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/no-ic-second-3rd-gear-pull?log=0&data=1-4
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/no-ic-third-3rd-gear-pull?log=0&data=1-4
And 3 pulls in third with the BMS Cooler with 76 degree F.
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/ic-first-3rd-gear-pull-76?log=0&data=1-4
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/ic-second-3rd-gear-pull-76?log=0&data=1-4
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/ic-third-3rd-gear-pull-76?log=0&data=1-4
And a cruise at 65mph with 76 F ambient
https://datazap.me/u/ale-5six1/65-mph-cruise-76?log=0&data=1-4
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited:
This is a 3rd gear pull after coming out of traffic so the IC hasn't seen good airflow before this. My car hates the heat! Lost 3.5 degrees of timing at 5000 RPM compared to a 67 degree IAT pull with the stock IC.
87 Degrees Ambient
https://datazap.me/u/zumble/bms-int...st-87-f-ambient?log=0&data=1-4-6-11&zoom=0-78
87 Degrees Ambient
https://datazap.me/u/zumble/bms-int...st-87-f-ambient?log=0&data=1-4-6-11&zoom=0-78
I havent tested going from dead stop traffic to a 3rd pull, but I bet my temps wouldnt be far from yours.
I wondering if all these people with other ICs that are claiming 10 over ambient, is in C, or they are testing in ideal/not realistic situations. Such as they just started the car when its cold, and go and do a 3rd gear pull before the intercooler has time to heat up from the engine/A/c.
I've noticed it does take quite a while for the IAT to drop when they get high in traffic though (if you are just driving normal in low boost situations)
At dead stop in traffic, my IAT is probably 35+ above ambient, and not until I've been cruising at 65 for a few minutes will it drop to around 25 above ambient.
@zumble are you a 1.8 with an IS20?
B/c I notice your boost levels are near an is20 max all the way through your RPM range
and you have only a max of 4.5 timing advance until your boost stops holding at 21+ lbs. a lot of the time you are running 0 timing advance
as soon as your boost drops to 12lbs, your ignition timing jumps to 12. Based on what George from BMS said, on a GTI you want around 10 degrees advance at max RPM.
so It seems like you are running super high boost and killing your timing. Which based on what George said on the JB4 thread https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26404 is not worth it.
"As you increase boost you will see the timing chart start dropping as well. In the midrange it is normal for you not to see any timing but at high rpm it has to pick up. This car in the log has got relatively good timing going up to 10 degrees at peak rpm where boost is running at 20psi. If we raise the boost at peak to 22psi we might see a 5 degree drop of timing and we loose any power gains from the boost increase. Regardless in terms of targeting we do not suggest values higher than 18psi at peak rpm. Anything higher in our findings and the timing offset costs far more than the power gained in boost." - George Smooth
B/c I notice your boost levels are near an is20 max all the way through your RPM range
and you have only a max of 4.5 timing advance until your boost stops holding at 21+ lbs. a lot of the time you are running 0 timing advance
as soon as your boost drops to 12lbs, your ignition timing jumps to 12. Based on what George from BMS said, on a GTI you want around 10 degrees advance at max RPM.
so It seems like you are running super high boost and killing your timing. Which based on what George said on the JB4 thread https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26404 is not worth it.
"As you increase boost you will see the timing chart start dropping as well. In the midrange it is normal for you not to see any timing but at high rpm it has to pick up. This car in the log has got relatively good timing going up to 10 degrees at peak rpm where boost is running at 20psi. If we raise the boost at peak to 22psi we might see a 5 degree drop of timing and we loose any power gains from the boost increase. Regardless in terms of targeting we do not suggest values higher than 18psi at peak rpm. Anything higher in our findings and the timing offset costs far more than the power gained in boost." - George Smooth
Last edited:
Yup, IS20 with my 1.8. The base tune is APR so it's boost heavy. I can lower the boost with the JB4, but it likely won't get my timing back because the ECU still thinks it's running mid 20 psi. Part of the reason why I'm going to switch to Maestro when I have some free time to mess with it. This is my car with a stock IC in cooler weather.
https://datazap.me/u/zumble/apr-is20-back-93-octane?log=0&data=1-4-11
This car is very similar to mine, except he has a DP and I don't. This should be a 93 octane APR map, mine is a 91. We are in the same area, ambient is close. He comes much closer to ambient (82 F). I think he has a APR IC.
https://datazap.me/u/jaypoto/is20-82-degrees-ambient-apr-stage-2-intercooler?log=0&data=1-4-6
https://datazap.me/u/zumble/apr-is20-back-93-octane?log=0&data=1-4-11
This car is very similar to mine, except he has a DP and I don't. This should be a 93 octane APR map, mine is a 91. We are in the same area, ambient is close. He comes much closer to ambient (82 F). I think he has a APR IC.
https://datazap.me/u/jaypoto/is20-82-degrees-ambient-apr-stage-2-intercooler?log=0&data=1-4-6
Last edited:
well comparing yours, mine and his runs, trying to get within the same boost or rpm ranges. Its not looking great for the BMS intercooler honestly.
first comparison:
his run:
82 ambient
2900rpm
12 lbs of boost
IAT is at 100
his IAT drops to its lowest at 89 = 11 degree drop
Your run:
3300 rpm
13 lbs of boost
IAT is at 130
Your IAT drops to its lowest at 118 = 22 degree drop
Mine:
76 ambient
2900 rpm
20 lbs
IAT 98
my IAT drops to 93 at its lowest = 5 degrees drop
Conclusion:
1. When comparing the max temps reached at the beginning of the pull. It Seems your IC is reaching much higher heat soak temps than ours.
2. You have the biggest drop in temp, based on static numbers, but you also had much higher starting temps.
Comparing his APR run to my BMS
1. The APR keeps the temps closer to ambient, even with less boost. 12 lbs vs. 20
2. The APR is able to bring the temps down to much closer to ambient at max boost ranges. at twice the efficiency?
Last edited:
Our testing problably isn't the most scientifically sound, but the more data points we have the better we can draw a complete picture.
My above log is a pretty bad scenario where I was driving in local traffic and then hopped on the highway. Ideally I'd like to get another 2-3-4 log so we get an idea of how well the IC handles sustained pulls.
My above log is a pretty bad scenario where I was driving in local traffic and then hopped on the highway. Ideally I'd like to get another 2-3-4 log so we get an idea of how well the IC handles sustained pulls.
Thats what my datazap pulls were, multiple pulls while the car was "cool". (probably why my starting IAT is much lower than yours. my IC didnt have a chance of heatsoak while sitting in traffic)
My car was parked for an hour and half and oil temps cooled down to around 150 - 160.
I drove for about 4 miles down the road, my IAT's were 20 over ambient while cruising the 4 miles. I'm guessing the oil temps were between 180 to 200 by that time.
Then I immediately started to do 3rd gear pulls 1, 2, a dead stop pull (which I didnt upload) then my final 3rd pull.
Last edited:
jimlloyd40
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Phoenix
- Car(s)
- 2018 SE DSG
Your oil temps would be up to normal operating temperature of 220 to 235 by then. Possibly higher depending upon the ambient temperature at that time.
My oil temps are usually in the 190s. I've seen 208 highest.
jimlloyd40
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Phoenix
- Car(s)
- 2018 SE DSG
I've never seen anyone else report that low of temperature when fully warmed up. It's supposed to be 215 to 235 unless tracking your car.