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Old 03-10-2017, 12:11 AM   #18
Luvs2speed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breaking badly View Post
Which Pagids? RS19/29? Feel free to provide more detailed info on this.
The only Pagid I tried so far (beside stock equivalent) where RS 4-2-1
(black) on the rear. I still wouldn't use these on front.

@ Luvs2speed, don't miss to improve ventilation (by adding TT-RS vents
+ removing shields) and do the brake assist mod (!!). By doin so you will
avoid costly issues. Thank me later.
Brake assist is deactivated, I have been trying to read through alot of your posts and I want to stay clear of EBC lol. The shields will be removed and I will add the TT-RS vents (such a good mod for very little cost). I am really just having a hard time choosing a pad. Options are much more limited for the non PP cars with the 312mm rotor. Some of the pads I have seen mentioned are either not sold in the US or not made for the non PP calipers. Any recommendations are appreciated and links if you have a good place to get them. Thanks everyone for the feedback.
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:37 AM   #19
breaking badly
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Just gathered some examples at one single shop to compare both
GTI front brake systems:


MQB 312 x 25 mm TRW caliper:


Ferodo DS2500 (no that I'd say these would be ideal for track)
Ferodo DS Uno
Carbopad GT


MQB 340 x 30 mm TRW caliper:

Carbopad GT
Carbopad RS
Dixcel Z
Endless MX72
Endless MA45B (please don't look for prices)
Endless ME20
Endless N40S
Endless N45S
Ferodo DS2500
Pagid RSL2
Pagid RS29 Yellow
Hawk HPS

Hawk HPS 5.0
Tarox Corsa 114


Certainly there's even more choice if you check other shops. But still I'm under
the impression, that I have to agree with you - there's clearly more choice with
the PP/R front brakes.
If you don't want to convert your brakes to PP spec and want to run these pads
on track mainly, you're probably fine with
Ferodo DS Uno.

http://www.ferodoracing.com/products...ke-pads/dsuno/



Last edited by breaking badly; 03-11-2017 at 12:04 PM. Reason: rotor size
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:52 AM   #20
Luvs2speed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breaking badly View Post
Just gathered some examples at one single shop to compare both
GTI front brake systems:


MQB 312 x 25 mm TRW:


Ferodo DS2500 (no that I'd say these would be ideal for track)
Ferodo DS Uno
Carbopad GT


MQB 340 x 25 mm TRW:

Carbopad GT
Carbopad RS
Dixcel Z
Endless MX72
Endless MA45B (please don't look for prices)
Endless ME20
Endless N40S
Endless N45S
Ferodo DS2500
Pagid RSL2
Pagid RS29 Yellow
Hawk HPS

Hawk HPS 5.0
Tarox Corsa 114


Certainly there's even more choice if you check other shops. But still I'm under
the impression, that I have to agree with you - there's clearly more choice with
the PP/R front brakes.
If you don't want to convert your brakes to PP spec and want to run these pads
on track mainly, you're probably fine with
Ferodo DS Uno.

http://www.ferodoracing.com/products...ke-pads/dsuno/


WOW! That's amazing and super helpful! Thank you for that. I am sure this will help a lot of others on here too.

I am totally willing to upgrade brakes at some point, but I think I would be more likely to just go with StopTech or something similar for the price. The PP brakes are heavy and still not a cheap conversion. My hope is to get the skill level up and once I outgrow the stock set-up and have the need for more, upgrade brakes. Thanks again breaking badly, huge help!!!
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:44 AM   #21
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Those who are saying certain brands of pads are "junk", can you explain why they're junk? What is your experience with them? It will help me and others, I'm sure.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:50 PM   #22
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I wouldn't call them junk, I know lots of folks that love them. I tried them, XP24, on my C6 race car and couldn't adjust to them. a lot depends on your personal preference, braking style, tire, and use (autoX, RR). I've ran many compounds. I think carbotech are decent for lighter cars. I drove a pro mazda (talk about fun, I'm buying one) and was shocked at the braking. Light touch and go. After coming back I learned they were carbotech pads. I was shocked. Not apples to apples but just saying

On my Golf r PP for fun track days and maybe chase races my set up is: XP10's all around, cooling ducts, SRF, SS lines, cheap centric plain rotors, R888R's, brake assist deactivated, and other VCDS mods. Will let you know in about a month what I think of the XP10's. I'm hard on brakes and so are the tracks I run so not expecting them to last long.

Oh and make sure you have a good wheel cleaner if you care about your rims!

http://www.ctbrakes.com/wheel-cleaner.asp

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2015WhiteGTI View Post
It's been stated earlier, don't run cheap pads. They're horrible for pad transfer! I used to run Carbotech - utter junk! We run Pagid on our race cars now. Night and day difference in wear, modulation and no transfer.

Last edited by edge04; 03-11-2017 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:06 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawker800mech View Post
Those who are saying certain brands of pads are "junk", can you explain why they're junk? What is your experience with them? It will help me and others, I'm sure.
Specifically EBC yellows are noisy, dusty, have lackluster performance compared to a comparable Cobalt, Carbotech, G-LOC, PFC pad, and they don't last very long.
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:38 AM   #24
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PP is 340 x 30mm... Maybe a typo.?
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Old 03-11-2017, 12:02 PM   #25
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Thumbs up

yeah, typo, thanks
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:05 AM   #26
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Background: I have 15 years of track experience in all sorts of cars and currently have an E36 race car i do time trials in. I also tracked my MK6 GTI a decent bit when i was in between race cars for a couple years.

Generally speaking, you do not need different rotors or calipers from stock. Reason is that slotted/drilled rotors do not increase the thermal capacity and only make the rotors more prone to cracking and increase pad wear. Using proper track brake pads and high temp brake fluid will do the job. I'd recommend Hawk HT-10s or DTC60s. I saw HPS in a list above, those are NOT track pads. Hawk pads are good about sharing rotors with street pads. When i swapped back and forth on the GTI i used Stoptech Street Performance streets pads with Hawk DTC60 track pads with great results. I've had bad luck with pad deposits with Carbotechs and wouldn't recommend them. For fluid, ATE Type200 is cheap and works fine. Flush often and bleed between track events.

Now, there is one catch. I can't speak for the MK7s, but with the MK6 GTI, XDS/EDL DESTROYED my brakes. I lit a set of Hawk DTC60s on fire. I lost all braking and had smoke pouring out of the wheel wells. The reason is that EDL was so often engaged that between that and actual braking the brakes never had a chance to cool off. I ended up getting a Stoptech BBK which had the thermal capacity to deal with it.

If you have a PP with a real LSD life will be significantly better on track for your brakes.

So i'd recommend starting with stock rotors, stock calipers, proper track pads and proper track brake fluid and taking it from there.
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:43 PM   #27
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Well. My PP rotors are out of life apparently, so I'm trying to figure out if I should just get more OEM PP rotors or something different. I'm currently running Porterfield R4-S pads with RBF600 brake fluid and stainless front lines, with stock non-PP rears. Was pretty hard on my brakes my very first track weekend, enough to boil the fluid (which was RBF600 but had been in there for ~15k miles before this track event).

So... what rotors to get... Honestly was just thinking about getting these StopTech Rotors. Should be a bit better, right? Anyone know anything about Porterfield R4-S / R4 brake pads?
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Last edited by Quebster; 03-18-2017 at 01:44 AM.
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Old 03-18-2017, 02:21 AM   #28
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I don't think they're any better than stock. Same non-directional vanes, so they'll
get as hot as stock. Slotted doesn't do anything for temperature except some minor
shaving of the pad surface.
Since your fluid was boiling I'm rather certain you need a noticeably better ventila-
tion. Cool them down as that excessive heat will also fry to your calipers' seals. It
is better decreasing temps than just using higher-boiling fluid.

Last edited by breaking badly; 03-18-2017 at 02:43 PM. Reason: GET
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Old 03-18-2017, 02:32 AM   #29
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I am working on some brake ducting, will have it done next week but have AutoX tomorrow. Next track event is April 11th. Also the "experts" (i.e. 90% of the people I ask, lol) are fairly sure they boiled mainly because of the fluid being "old." I'm giving the RBF600 another chance before changing, but hoping brake ducting will help.

Either way, may only have a couple of track events left in my stock rotors, so I need to figure out if I should get more stock rotors or something different.

I eyed the Emmannuele Design ones but can't justify spending $700+ on just rotors without going ahead and getting a BBK, which I don't care to do. I eyed the ECS 2-piece rotors but they're drilled, which I don't care for either.

By the way, what is this TT-RS ducting y'all are talking about? And what "guards" are recommended being removed, just the splash guard or what? Lastly, is brake assist a thing on early 2015 GTIs? This is my first time seeing anything about it! Thanks in advance.
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Last edited by Quebster; 03-18-2017 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 03-18-2017, 03:16 PM   #30
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I wouldn't judge autocross as critically as tracking. Think you're fine on that event.
I very much understand, that spending 700 $ on directionally vented discs is a huge
hurdle. I've been aware of this when I did my last post. Nonetheless (from guessing)
I'd think directional ventilation is capable of decreasing rotor and pad peak temps by
100 F or even more.
Removing shields + fitting TT-RS (which require some modification to them) is the
most cost-effective way. Fitting hose is better, but much more complicated. If I do
remember correctly, forum member 'Maody' has performed that on his R:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...dys-Golf-VII-R

IMHO after one year and 15 kmls of street driving only your RBF600 (which is excellent
stuff) commonly shouldn't be too old, though several track days certainly are 'too much'
for it. I'd swap brake fluid after any or every two track days, as brake fluid detoriates
rather quickly when that hot.
As mentioned, boiling fluid says much about the temperature of the entire brake assembly.
When the fluid boils, it does boil because the pistons get hot (or even hotter). When the
pistons get hot, the seals also get hot.
While you perhaps could solve that issue by swapping more often or using an even more
advanced fluid like Endless RF650, it would do nothing on other problem areas, of which
the most significant is your caliper seals. That said, from my own experience the very
most underrated single point when it comes to brakes and tracking is ventilation.
In other words, it's a darned good idea that you're going to improve the ventilation.
Lastly, yes, brake assist setting is a point on any Mk.VII. Take a couple of hours and
try all of the settings (if I remember right, there are three). I'm sure you'll notice the
difference when you jump onto the pedal. The most natural feeling setting is ideal for
track.

.
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:54 PM   #31
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I'm having a hard time finding directional vane rotors. I've only been able to find ECS' which is drilled and slotted (no thanks), and Emmannuele Design. Are there no others for our cars?

I'd like to ask again, when you say "removing shields," what shields are you talking about? Thanks for all the advice by the way.
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:33 PM   #32
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Dust shields, located behind your rotors, affecting both ventilation and heat
radiation.

Many real racing gear vendors will easily supply suitable directionally vented
two-piece rotors, assembled from AP-Racing, Performance Friction or Brembo
parts, drilled to suit your car and with the 'face' (drilled, slotted or plain) you
prefer. The huge downside is they're certainly somewhere near 1000 a pair.



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Old 03-19-2017, 08:46 PM   #33
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lol, ugh. I'll just go with the StopTechs I linked to above, I'm sure they'll be enough for light track duty, though I do like to get on the brakes. They've been making braking products for years with success and know their stuff, and the slots will at least help some according to all the reading I've been doing.

And the dust shields, thank you that makes sense. I'll do that when I install my vents since that will be necessary. I thought you were talking about the splash guard for a second. What is the point of those anyway? (the dust shields)
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:29 PM   #34
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Splash guard and dust shield is the same. Several purposes, one of them is
protecting ball joints and ABS sensors from hot rotors. That's why you should
either wrap these with heat insulating tape or keep your shields and modify
them so that you leave some of it where necessary or use RS3 ones that
come already 'skeletonized' from factory.
There may exist other reasons as keeping road debris and water off, but I
never had any issues running without the shields. If anything, I had issues
with keeping them. Either way, brakes require cooling when used on track.
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