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Stock: MK7.5 GTI vs Hyundai Veloster N

What Will You Buy And Own For Next 5 Years?

  • Hyundai Veloster N (Performance Pack)

    Votes: 10 11.2%
  • Volkswagen Golf GTI (Autobahn)

    Votes: 79 88.8%

  • Total voters
    89

jbm119

Ready to race!
Location
Newark, DE
Great review of Veloster N. I saw many reviews that offered great driving dynamics like you described. But for me, I will stay with GTI due to the fact that I spend more time commuting in traffic than spiritual driving. GTI offer better interior and material as well as options, better exterior look. I wish Hyundai brought I30N to state. I think it is better looking car.
 

Born_Into_This

Ready to race!
Location
Twin Cities, MN
Car(s)
18 R
So before I get into what's better, we'll go over what's worse about the N. The interior, while nowhere near as bad as people are saying, isn't up to the quality standards of VW.

Much easier and cheaper to make the GTI/R perform at a higher level than it would be to improve the Hyundai interior and tech.

Many in this community aren't willing to take the steps(parts) necessary to adjust alignment. A little extra camber and caster plus some stiffer bushings will transform the mk7.
 

mesaboogie18

Ready to race!
Location
MD
There is no way I’d trade my R for the Hyundai. They’re not even in the same class. I understand the comparison to a gti, I’d still easily take the gti, but awd is to much of a benefit. In comparing a gti vs n, I’m sure it instantly switches back in the gti’s favor the moment you start bolting on parts, the gti takes very well to bolt-ons, its been proven, I’d bet the n is near it’s limits in stock form, I’m glad it’ll push vw to make the gti better, stock vs stock, but the unknown of how the n’s bolt on gains will be, along with how it’ll actually hold up, makes the gti with a few mods the easy choice imo

The i30N/Veloster N responds very well to mods apparently. This i30N had bolt-ons and a generic piggyback tune and still made good power. The aftermarket is nowhere near as big as VW's, of course, but the N's are not near their limit in stock form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNy4...s&spfreload=10
 

geokilla

Go Kart Champion
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Car(s)
2018 VW GTI DSG
Excellent review LS240 and thank you for your input. Also welcome to the community. Seems like the reviews are spot on when it says the MK7.5 GTI and Golf R might be the better all around car, while the Veloster N is more performance oriented. What do you think it'll be like to daily driver the Veloster N, sitting in traffic?
 

heiney9

Go Kart Champion
Location
Illinois
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport DSG
I see an awful lot of speculation from people in here that haven't actually driven a Veloster N. Well coming from someone that actually has driven one; it's not only better than a GTI, it's better than an R. I currently own a MK7 R and have owned a MK7 GTI, and the funny thing is the N I drove didn't even have the Performance Package and I'd still say it's a much better driver's car. I know I'm gonna get hate for this, but it's true. And really, it's not even close.

So before I get into what's better, we'll go over what's worse about the N. The interior, while nowhere near as bad as people are saying, isn't up to the quality standards of VW. The dash and door panels are all hard touch plastic, though it feels like decent quality stuff, and fits together much better than the crap you see in any Ford, for instance. There's no option for leather or Alcantara, just basic cloth. The back seat is actually big enough to sit in somewhat comfortable for me, and I'm 6' 205, but it is a bit tight getting back there with the one small rear passenger door, and the large C pillars make it feel pretty claustrophobic. No fold down arm rest either, or any other amenities. So not the best if you cart around other adults or bigger kids frequently.

There's also just nowhere near as much tech. No fancy adaptive lighting and the low beams are even incandescent, no adaptive cruise control, and no option for a dual clutch(yet). The infotainment at least is very good with bright, clear graphics and super quick response. If I'm being really nitpicky, the engine doesn't have quite as much energy up high in the rev range as an R, but again, I drove a non-PP car and it's my understanding that extra 25hp occurs more in the top half of the rev range, so this may be a moot point. It's still at least as good as a GTI, as is. The design, I'll leave up to the eye of the beholder. I actually really like the N a lot, but I also think MK7s are beautiful, so that's a positive for both cars and a tie in my book. The N is definitely much more aggressive which is good or bad, depending on your perspective.

So what is better about the N? Literally everything else, and especially everything that makes a car fun and engaging to drive. Just getting settled into the car it has a noticeably more sporty feel. It's much more compact inside, and the driving position and interior layout are more like a traditional sports car or sports coupe, as opposed to the more upright hatchback layout in the Golf. You sit lower in the car, and lower to the ground, with an interior that shrinks around you, with grippy seats that actually offer more support than those in the R. OK, so we're off to a good start here.

Start the car up and get moving, and there's a few impressions that immediately hit me, in this order; the sounds, the clutch and shifter, and the steering. Even at parking lot speeds the car just feels "right" in so many ways, and genuinely exciting.

First, that sound. It sounds better than any Golf MK7 I have ever heard, period. It's truly remarkable, and the one I drove didn't even have the dual mode exhaust! There is literally nothing you can do, short of a VR6 or I5 swap, no matter how much money you spend on exhaust, what combination of parts you use, etc. to get a MK7 to sound that good. The anti-lag pops on upshifts or on a lift of the throttle were enough to make me giggle like a child. And they have a much more natural feel than a pops and bangs tune, without going into the area of being obnoxious or excessive. And it also makes all these wonderful little burbles and rumbles when you let off the gas too. Roll up to a stop sign in 2nd or 3rd in one and you'll understand what I mean. It's like an old-school turbo car with a rich tune and hot exhaust after a hard run. The car sounds like it's alive, making much more organic sounds both under throttle and off than most 4 cylinders could ever muster. The closest thing out there is an Abarth, and those are nowhere near as vocal stock, if that gives you any idea.

Then there's the clutch and shifter, which just have a wonderful, natural feel to them, almost feeling old school in the best of ways. The clutch has none of that weird springy quality of a MK7 clutch, or so many other modern manual cars, so it's easy to find the bite point and modulate smoothly. The shifter strikes a great balance between being mechanical and notchy, while being precise and smooth at the same time. I feel like I could drive the car hard for hour after hour and never come close to missing a shift. I'd put it right up there with the best stock shifter feels in modern cars along with a BRZ. And, yes, that means it's a lot better than a MK7 shifter as well. The only mild downside is a bit of rev hang which requires patience when cruising around to get the smoothest upshifts. It's no worse than any other modern 4 cylinder turbo, though.

As for the steering, I'll start by saying I didn't realize my R had a dead zone on center until I drove the N and got back in my car. It's seriously impressive how precise the steering is, with what feels like effectively zero dead zone. There's solid weight and response from the steering immediately off-center, and yet there's no nervousness either. I could cruise down the highway without the constant small corrections necessary from many electric steering systems. That's a hell of a trick to pull off. Feedback isn't remarkable, like nearly all modern cars unfortunately, but there is actually some feedback to be had, and it's more than in a GTI or R. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being basically none, and 10 being a hyperactive old Miata with no power steering and sticky tires, I'd say it's about a 3 whereas an R is a 2. The small amount of torque steer that's present could be felt clearly through the wheel, and personally I actually love torque steer in a FWD car, so that's fantastic if you ask me.

The nose that steering is connected to is fantastic as well. The car turns in with almost telepathic precision. A bit like a FiST or FoST, but more natural in it's rate of response, rather than feeling unnaturally enhanced. I really can't emphasize enough how much better the N turns in than a GTI or R. Out of the box, it's easily sharper than my R with camber plates and RE71R track tires, so forget about comparing it to a stock MK7. The balance is much more neutral as well. I didn't get the tail to step out on my test drive, but I also never detected even a hint of understeer at lateral loads that would have had a GTI pushing. And that torque steer I mentioned occurs more in a straight line, when it's just fun, rather than while attempting to accelerate out of a tight corner where it could be distracting. Again, I must emphasize the car I drove was a non-PP so it lacked the torque vectoring LSD. I imagine those will turn in and find exit traction even better, though whether it crosses into the realm of feeling artificial, I cannot say.

Overall, the car just has a level of polish to it's dynamics that a MK7, or at least any MK7 sold in the States, just can't touch. The car feels all-of-a-piece, like it was setup by people who really understand driving, and they poured their heart and soul into the car and really nailed it. More than literally any stock car I've ever driven, it just feels right straight out of the box, and I can think of nothing I would want to change. If you're looking for some cars to compare it to, it has the low, compact feeling and fantastic shifter and clutch of a BRZ, with the aggression and sense of playfulness of a Fiesta ST, with the sound of a heavily-modified Abarth, and the engine response and feel of a GTI, yet as fast as an R on the move. Pretty impressive list of attributes.

Quite frankly, I fell in love with the N and didn't want to hand the key back to the salesman after my test drive. If the car they had on the lot had the PP, I likely would have traded my R in on the spot, but I know I would regret not having the big brakes and LSD the first time I hit the track with it, so I must wait. In the end, I think I'll end up with both, as my wife loves driving the R and said she would rather trade in her Jeep and keep the R, so best of both worlds I suppose. But make no mistake, if I had to choose one, I'd take the N over my R, and a GTI isn't even a factor.

Thanks for your take, but it sounds like all personal preferences vs. whether it's actually a hands down a "better" car. The "N" I'm going to guess, like the Type "R" Civic aren't a great all around daily driver. The GTI gives up ultimate performance for a more all-around character whereas the N and Type R seem to be aimed at being more hard core performance and tad less opulent at the expense of being a good all around daily. Not saying you can't daily it. But all the things you mention would get old everyday on the road. I also prefer DSG as VW hasn't had a good manual trans in a long time, always adequate, but never excellent.

So, that's a case of what you prefer vs. one actually being "so much" better.

It's a subjective thing and I can respect that today you choose the "N", but that doesn't make it a leaps and bounds better choice.
 
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Towerworld

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Toronto
Thanks for your take, but it sounds like all personal preferences vs. whether it's actually a hands down a "better" car. The "N" I'm going to guess, like the Type "R" Civic aren't a great all around daily driver. The GTI gives up ultimate performance for a more all-around character whereas the N and Type R seem to be aimed at being more hard core performance and tad less opulent at the expense of being a good all around daily. Not saying you can't daily it. But all the things you mention would get old everyday on the road. I also prefer DSG as VW hasn't had a good manual trans in a long time, always adequate, but never excellent.

So, that's a case of what you prefer vs. one actually being "so much" better.

It's a subjective thing and I can respect that today you choose the "N", but that doesn't make it a leaps and bounds better choice.
Neither the Civic Or N are bad daily drivers from what I've heard, not luxury but they have all the tech you need and decent ride quality. Biggest shortcoming from both is road noise and poor audio systems.

The R is a great car but it has some objective flaws compared to the N, weak exhaust note, lack of steering feel, disconnected clutch feel and more understeer at the limit. I'm kind of on the fence of changing over myself, adult part of me likes the R but the kid part likes the N
 

JC_451

Autocross Champion
Location
NJ, one of the nice parts.
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
If you park a Golf R next to a bunch of BMW and Mercedes in the corporate parking lot it just doesn't get noticed.

If you park a Type R next to them quite a few people might question your decision making.

Not saying it's right.

Just sayin :p
 

heiney9

Go Kart Champion
Location
Illinois
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport DSG
Neither the Civic Or N are bad daily drivers from what I've heard, not luxury but they have all the tech you need and decent ride quality. Biggest shortcoming from both is road noise and poor audio systems.

The R is a great car but it has some objective flaws compared to the N, weak exhaust note, lack of steering feel, disconnected clutch feel and more understeer at the limit. I'm kind of on the fence of changing over myself, adult part of me likes the R but the kid part likes the N

Don't care about a MT (my preference), exhaust note is a personal preference. I don't want a loud exhaust note. How is lack of an aggressive exhaust note a flaw? Does it somehow make the car underperform or it is one of those preferences again? And subjective, not objective?

So you've flogged them both at the track and the R understeers more? I don't track or road race my GTi so I have no need for a car that has hair better numbers at the limit. I don't buy cars based solely on numbers.
 

Gogo GTI

Go Kart Champion
Location
Boulder, CO
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
IMO I'm seeing a divergence in class of cars. It's becoming oranges and apples but car enthusiasts still insist on comparing these cars head to head.



I think of the GTI as a "sporty" hatchback. So it's staying true to its roots. These other cars like the Veloster N and Civic R-Type are really entering the realm of budget sports cars. They look like it and feel like it.



The majority of people are buying these cars for totally different reasons. Just look at the demographics of people buying these cars... Well it's too early to say for the Veloster but I'm sure we know what to expect. The Golf is a "people's car". If you want flash, I think you have to look elsewhere. Well that's my perspective on it anyway.
 

Towerworld

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Toronto
Don't care about a MT (my preference), exhaust note is a personal preference. I don't want a loud exhaust note. How is lack of an aggressive exhaust note a flaw? Does it somehow make the car underperform or it is one of those preferences again? And subjective, not objective?

So you've flogged them both at the track and the R understeers more? I don't track or road race my GTi so I have no need for a car that has hair better numbers at the limit. I don't buy cars based solely on numbers.
As a sports car its an objective flaw but if you look at is a commuting hatchback then its different.
Haven't driven the N or civic R but i've heard from reputable people that both have better grip and turn-in while cornering , but honestly on 95% of roads you can't exploit a car's limit anyway.

It really just depends on what you like, I bought the R because I like its understated looks, quality Performance and practicality and I still think it provides the best balance of those things vs its competition. If you want all out performance per $ its not the best choice but neither is any new hatchback to be honest.
 

heiney9

Go Kart Champion
Location
Illinois
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport DSG
As a sports car its an objective flaw but if you look at is a commuting hatchback then its different.
Haven't driven the N or civic R but i've heard from reputable people that both have better grip and turn-in while cornering , but honestly on 95% of roads you can't exploit a car's limit anyway.

It really just depends on what you like, I bought the R because I like its understated looks, quality Performance and practicality and I still think it provides the best balance of those things vs its competition. If you want all out performance per $ its not the best choice but neither is any new hatchback to be honest.

Again you are confusing objective and subjective. Not having a manual is not an objective flaw it's subjective based on preference.

I guess Ferrari's aren't sports cars because they are flawed because they use auto transmissions.

Your own words "it depends on what you like", that's subjective criteria not objective. If it was purely objective you'd buy what looked good on paper and by the numbers and not necessarily what you "like".

That was my entire point.
 
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Towerworld

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Toronto
Again you are confusing objective and subjective. Not having a manual is not an objective flaw it's subjective based on preference.

I guess Ferrari's aren't sports cars because they are flawed because they use auto transmissions.

Your own words "it depends on what you like", that's subjective criteria not objective. If it was purely objective you'd buy what looked good on paper and by the numbers and not necessarily what you "like".

That was my entire point.
And when did I argue what your suggesting? Seriously point out the sentence where I claimed that the presence of a manual transmission dictates a car's status as a sports car or not.

At least read my post properly before trying to educate me professor.
 
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heiney9

Go Kart Champion
Location
Illinois
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport DSG
And when did I argue what your suggesting? Seriously point out the sentence where I claimed that the presence of a manual transmission dictates a car's status as a sports car or not.

At least read my post properly before trying to educate me professor.

I put the word "automatic" in your sentence in my brain and was responding to that. My bad...........you didn't specifically say that.

Cars are about passion for the people who look at them more than just a point A to point B necessity so it's really about subjectivity more than objectivity when choosing your ride. That was my only point.

I'm sure the Veloster N ticks a lot boxes for some people, but those are mostly subjective boxes and doesn't make it leaps and bounds better than something similar based on owner preferences.
 

Towerworld

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Toronto
I put the word "automatic" in your sentence in my brain and was responding to that. My bad...........you didn't specifically say that.

Cars are about passion for the people who look at them more than just a point A to point B necessity so it's really about subjectivity more than objectivity when choosing your ride. That was my only point.

I'm sure the Veloster N ticks a lot boxes for some people, but those are mostly subjective boxes and doesn't make it leaps and bounds better than something similar based on owner preferences.
Ok I agree, its hard to say that any car is objectively better than another though. As a practical vehicle of transportation you could argue that a 1999 civic would be the best car because it requires the lowest cost of ownership but transports you as effectively as any other car on the market.
 
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