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I'm hearing mixed opinions about APR.

J

joneze93tsi

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
MIDWEST
You will find mixed opinions on virtually everything in this world. From vegetables, brands of food. One person's opinion is just that..there opinion.


In my lifetime I've logged probably 250k miles on APR tuned vehicles. Never had anything seriously wrong that wasn't addressed with a revision or two.

You'll find die-hard GIAC, COBB, and fans in every camp.

You'll have to decide what is important and make a leap of faith. Do you want a local tuner? Protune? Support for future mods?
 
S

Stija

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Az
Car(s)
BMW Saab Subaru VW
Cobb is the way to go. You can resell the unit when done, you can do your own flashing in 2-3 minutes, and as the apr loving guy said a cobb protune will yield better results than apr. So why go with something “lesser.”
 
Twist1

Twist1

Autocross Newbie
Location
Breaking Mustang Hearts
Always like to point out both records on this platform belong to APR.

One thing they spent a long time perfecting was the cam actuation. Some protunes I've ridden in don't have the "kick" my car has at 3k. Also, how theyre able to boost 28+psi and keep EGTs in check on pump gas without meth means there is some stuff going on tuning wise that I don't think some protuners even touch. Granted they're making power with more timing from blends however..

In 2019 the two options are really either APR or custom tuning imho. I've heard unitronic is incredibly smooth as a DD though
 
H

Hans

Ready to race!
Location
NC
Car(s)
19 Golf R
Gti jake said:
They’re definitely reliable, and anyone who says otherwise is just trying to sell you on going slow with Unitronic.
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#nofilter Ha ha. Flashing at home is nice as well, but I have been thinking about trying the APR OTS 38 file.
 
RecycledDonuts

RecycledDonuts

Ready to race!
Location
Alabama
I run Eurodyne personally. I like the idea of changing a map if I have to. My uncle runs APR ecu and tcu tune with zero issues. I do not have a negative thing to say about either.
 
S

Stija

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Az
Car(s)
BMW Saab Subaru VW
How long does apr sustain 28psi, or are we talking peak numbers. Did you look at some logs of yours? Im genuinely wondering because it cant be for long or throughout the rpm range.

On another note, is apr working on coming out with a true flex fuel solution at all? I know for sure cobb isnt.
 
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TheGreekFreak

TheGreekFreak

Go Kart Champion
Location
MA
Stija said:
Cobb is the way to go. You can resell the unit when done, you can do your own flashing in 2-3 minutes, and as the apr loving guy said a cobb protune will yield better results than apr. So why go with something “lesser.”
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I think the ability to sell the AP is an overrated reason to go cobb. When you factor in the cost of the custom tune + time to log for revisions + maybe $100 you'll lose on the AP when you sell, its not a huge difference in price with APR.

I still think its the best option but more for the the fact that I prefer a custom tune catered to my car + environment vs something ots. As others have said, it seems like APR is the best set it and forget it option for those that don't want to deal with logging/revisions or pay for a protune on a dyno
 
Z

ZuMBLe

Autocross Champion
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack 6MT
TheGreekFreak said:
I think the ability to sell the AP is an overrated reason to go cobb. When you factor in the cost of the custom tune + time to log for revisions + maybe $100 you'll lose on the AP when you sell, its not a huge difference in price with APR.



I still think its the best option but more for the the fact that I prefer a custom tune catered to my car + environment vs something ots. As others have said, it seems like APR is the best set it and forget it option for those that don't want to deal with logging/revisions or pay for a protune on a dyno
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If you have a good tuner sure go with Cobb. You'll also maybe need to run logs and do a couple revisions. If you want the most powerful tune possible you'll end up with a tune optimal only for the environment your car has been tested in. Pick your poison.
 
S

Stija

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Az
Car(s)
BMW Saab Subaru VW
I was referring to cobb custom tune not cobb ots maps. And both ap and tunes go with the car. Now if you dont wanna sell a tuned car then you’re out $$ you paid for custom tunes minus what you lose on ap. And thats before we even get to comparing tunes. And i am sorry but if i am paying the money id prefer a custom tune for my vehicle and my driving style.

But i am a bit biased because i only know cobb. And etuning is no more of a chore than having to go to apr for any adjustments. Oh, except that its waaay easier. I forgot that

I am new to the vw tuning world but from what ive seen EQT’s dyno graphs look phenomenal and cutomer reports are just as positive. I personally want the ability to flex fuel otherwise there is only one choice for me.

If you want the most powerful tune possible you'll end up with a tune optimal only for the environment your car has been tested in.
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I am assuming the car is tuned in closed loop like in subaru world and if thats the case the tune compensates for different conditions.
 
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Twist1

Twist1

Autocross Newbie
Location
Breaking Mustang Hearts
Stija said:
How long does apr sustain 28psi, or are we talking peak numbers. Did you look at some logs of yours? Im genuinely wondering because it cant be for long or throughout the rpm range.

On another note, is apr working on coming out with a true flex fuel solution at all? I know for sure cobb isnt.
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Starts tapering at approximately 5200 rpm. My is38 hits 28.5 in the winter, holds it for 1-2k then tapers to 20-22psi at approximately 6200. Timing shoots up after 5.5k as well as boost drops. A protune would probably be 28 psi that tapers to about 24-26psi at redline. But the timing is where the maybe 10-15whp difference is made. Gotta remember Apr is a tune for pump gas, so comparing a pump protune there's not much difference really on the dyno.

My is38 tune is not peaky at all, my is20 one kind of was but mostly due to the nature of that tiny snail.
 
L

launchd

Drag Racing Champion
Location
New York
Car(s)
2023 M3LR, 2021 A7
Twist said:
It fkn absolutely occurs my man. Do you have logging software? Put in 91 on a 93 Oct aggressive pump tune like apr and watch all those negative numbers fly. Sensors will be 1.2V by the time u hit 4krpm

APRs is38 catless map is full send it boii and you better make sure that gas is good to go. The ecu is good enough to pull timing if you don't but is not something you'd want to risk consistently
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Good to know.
 
Z

ZuMBLe

Autocross Champion
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack 6MT
MyGolfMk7 said:
What's the process for getting an etune?
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They send you a base map. You start the logging function on your access port, drive at illegal speeds, send log to tuner, repeat.

For APR you drive to a tuner, wait 20 min, drive away.
 
S

Stija

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Az
Car(s)
BMW Saab Subaru VW
ZuMBLe said:
They send you a base map. You start the logging function on your access port, drive at illegal speeds, send log to tuner, repeat.

For APR you drive to a tuner, wait 20 min, drive away.
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Yes basically. In subaru world 3rd gear pull so about 90-95mph. I just asked Ed what gear he wants his pulls in, i hope its 3rd. I am not going to do pulls in 4th to redline, like he said illegal speeds. You can always get dyno tuned and not be involved at all.

And i doubt apr is just waiting on me to show up whenever and that im in and out in 20min. But i could be wrong. Im guessing first an appt is necessary to cut down on waiting. Then not to mention that there isnt ant custom tuning involved but if i can call it a generic solution.

Where as i can log any time with cobb then email the log to my tuner any time of day and wait for a reply. Usually when tuning my wrx i can do from 1-6 revisions in a day. On my flex fuel tune my 91oct all 6 revisions took half a day. Tuner is very responsive to his email. Lol The other e50 8 revisions took a week mainly because of my schedule. Car is fine to drive during the process so i took it easy with flex plus i had to fill up with flex and consume 91oct so that took a few days. .

And i do prefer e tuning to dyno tuning because it is more real world conditions tuned than on the dyno and artificial conditions trying to replicate real world street. Not to mention i like to be involved instead of just leaving keys with someone and coming back to pick it up. But one could always choose that route.
 
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Z

ZuMBLe

Autocross Champion
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack 6MT
In the subaru world, half the etune session is trying to get the car not to overboost. Oh, so you changed the muffler tip?? OVERBOOST! :D Former subaru owner and cobb ATR tuner here.

I've been using 3rd gear pulls for my logs on my JB4. 4th gear pulls definitely see higher boost numbers. On a 6 speed, 4th is probably really the right gear to use. I have never wound out 4th on my alltrack. I simply do not have the suspension, tires, or brakes to do it confidently. :eek:

For APR flash speed, the actual flash is about 10 to 15 minutes. If your tuner is waiting for you, you could be in and out in 30 minutes.

There is a certain bliss that goes with having a flash tune which you can't change yourself. You just enjoy it, instead of wondering if you can squeeze more out of it, or if it was setup wrong, etc.

Stija said:
Yes basically. In subaru world 3rd gear pull so about 90-95mph. I just asked Ed what gear he wants his pulls in, i hope its 3rd. I am not going to do pulls in 4th to redline, like he said illegal speeds. You can always get dyno tuned and not be involved at all.

And i doubt apr is just waiting on me to show up whenever and that im in and out in 20min. But i could be wrong. Im guessing first an appt is necessary to cut down on waiting. Then not to mention that there isnt ant custom tuning involved but if i can call it a generic solution.

Where as i can log any time with cobb then email the log to my tuner any time of day and wait for a reply. Usually when tuning my wrx i can do from 1-6 revisions in a day. On my flex fuel tune my 91oct all 6 revisions took half a day. Tuner is very responsive to his email. Lol The other e50 8 revisions took a week mainly because of my schedule. Car is fine to drive during the process so i took it easy with flex plus i had to fill up with flex and consume 91oct so that took a few days. .

And i do prefer e tuning to dyno tuning because it is more real world conditions thned than on the dyno and artificial conditions trying to replicate real world street. Not to mention i like to be involved instead of just leaving keys with someone and coming back to pick it up. But one could always choose that route.
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