squeaky brakes when cold...

Tsi7 said:

It's been 4 months since I changed the rotors, i'm pretty sure the pads are bedded into the rotors (or vice versa) as i've done enough hard braking since then. Grease is some German stuff, forget what it's called but comes in some yellow bottle and I put it on the edges where the pad slides into the caliper carrier slot slot and a little bit on the back of the pads like i've always done with every brake job I ever did

For what it's worth.. this article says to never use new pads on old rotors... (I know it says visa versa but they only go on to explain why it's a bad idea to reuse new pads on old rotors)

https://www.blauparts.com/vw/vw_brake_parts/vw_brake_pads/vw_brake_pads_set.shtml

and also, I have no idea where you are getting this VW parts must be superior to Japanese or Korean... last time I checked, my golf was made in mexico, for the Canadian market, where there is no autobahn. I also didn't get an electronic hand brake like the the rest of world does, and my OEM pads which are made by TRW i'm pretty sure are ceramic or semi metallic pads are not racing pads.

https://www.autoanything.com/brakes/the-best-brake-pads-ceramic-or-metallic.aspx

I've driven over 200km/h on the autobahn in a volvo wagon which isn't a german car and wasn't made for the autobahn... the regular pads performed just fine

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I can clarify some issues mentioned in this post.
1. In 4 months, pads and rotors should have bedded in and there shouldnt be any issue because of this.
2. Most tier 1 caliper suppliers grease their pads to avoid noise and drag issues. By reducing the friction with grease, pads can slide better and re-center once brake is released.
3. There are two basic pad materials - European and North America. European pad materials are the most aggressive as most of their driving cycles is within city limits with lesser stopping distance. This is the main reason why rotor change is recommended for those vehicles in specific during every pad change.
4. Most European OEMs who sells vehicles in NA fit their vehicles with North American category pads as the European pads are too aggressive for most NA buyers.
5. There arent many tier 1 caliper supplier and most of them develop calipers for all OEMs across the globe. TRW is a caliper supplier and they buy pads from a tier 2 supplier.

Tsi7 said:

Different, which in your context given that you mentioned the autobahn, can easily imply superior...

and no offense, that article is rubbish

Most Australian’s know that owning a European car can be rather costly, especially when it comes to brake replacements.

"The reason why European car owners need to replace their brakes and rotors at the same time is due to most European manufacturers use softer compound materials in their brake rotors to increase braking performance of their vehicles.

It’s great for performance, but unfortunately, this means they wear out faster.

So, in order to restore correct braking performance, the rotors will need to be replaced with the brake pads, which could save you more money in the long run!"

Softer compound rotors, what in the hell are those? I think what they meant was softer compound pads, implying that you should replace your rotors when your pads are done, and that pads on German cars wear out faster because of the softer compound material. Horseshit, how do my pads have 50% life left after 65000km if they are so high performance?

I did read another article stating that until pads wear a little bit on the new rotor there may be some unevenness... but i've already driven 5000km since... pretty sure i've broken in the old pads on the new rotors by now

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Not my article, but it covered the basics. Thus I told you to do some research.

https://ebcbrakes.com/ece-r90/ That should be better. I get this doesn't fit with your understanding of braking systems, but it is how it works. Confused me too when I first learned about it in high school autoshop.

Most European vehicles are built with single piston caliper systems with “deep” profile pads where the band width (height of the pad from top to bottom) is much larger than in brake systems used on Asian cars or American built cars. This basic design difference has lead to European car manufacturers using HIGHER FRICTION pads than most of their counterparts who build vehicles in Asia and USA. To use the lower friction level pads common in the American and Asian markets inter-mixed with a higher friction European spec pad is a recipe for disaster.

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The reason for the above quote is due to different standards when it comes to braking. Turns out ECE R78 and FMVSS 122 are more aplicable, so I linked to them below.

Euro: hard pads, soft rotors
Asian: soft pads, hard rotors.
American: hard pads, hard rotors. My dads chevy made it to 150k and the original pads and rotors were still above 50% life, changed them for peace of mind anyway.

Get a microscope and examine the two different types of pads, the Euro one will almost have hooks in it that really dig into the rotor. Just had a class by Textar all about this.

Better article: http://www.pisa-project.eu/download...dTable_International_Harmonization_Erario.pdf

Edit: the bold is not an insult. If you took it that way I apologize, but you clearly stated that you think pads are soft and rotors are hard for European cars and that is not true.

Wrath And Tears said:

Not my article, but it covered the basics. Thus I told you to do some research.

https://ebcbrakes.com/ece-r90/ That should be better. So exactly what I said and told you has been industry standard since early 2000s. I get this doesn't fit with your understanding of braking systems, but it is how it works.



The reason for the above quote is due to different standards when it comes to braking.

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Firstly, the article you linked is a fail because it refers to pads and rotors only in the European market

vj even pointed out in his post that rotors and pads made for outside of the European market are not subjected to these European laws (aka the ECE R90 legislation) which is mentioned in the article you linked

also, in a nuthsell, all the regulation states is that aftermarket manufactures of brake pads and rotors must comply with and meet the requirements of OE pads and rotors and not deviate by more then 15%.

https://pagid.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/pagid_ece_r901.pdf

https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/R090r3e_01.pdf


I fail to see how this makes German pads and rotors more superior then any other... for all we know the supplier for a German car company can make the pads as crap as possible and then resell the same brand pads as aftermarket as long as it falls within that 15% deviation based on the ECE R90 law... i'm not saying this is the case, but that's the jist of this law from my understanding

And regardless, our cars are made in Mexico, for the American market, so the standards are totally different anyways and the pads are more then likely not even as high performing as the so called European ones, like vj pointed out

So please, don't start telling me to do my research and tell me how braking systems work... While I may not be a mechanic, I have a generally good understanding of mechanical components and how things work. My question was in reference to why my front rotors are a little squeaky in the mornings when it's cold and the car has sat for a long since I haven't come across this issue in the past... i think if I had problems with putting old pads on new rotors, I would've noticed after 5000km

Vjs explanation actually makes the most sense, given that these pads do create quite a lot of brake dust, AND I now am running winter steelies which may potentially not let as much brake dust escape

You missed my edit, but whatever. Really doesn't matter.

I'm surprised you have never experienced rust on your brakes. Yes that is likely the source of your noise. I was never saying the noise was due to the fact pads made for European brand cars are different than others. I just added that to explain the difference between Euro car brake replacements and Asian car brake replacements.

https://textar.com/ams-test/ The textar rotors and pads I buy say right on the box that they are made to German specifications.

I can upload some pictures of the training manual I got in class if you would like, might help clear up some confusion but might create more. Your call.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where the OP stated in the OP that the car had been sitting for a long time.

Wrath And Tears said:

You missed my edit, but whatever. Really doesn't matter.

I'm surprised you have never experienced rust on your brakes. Yes that is likely the source of your noise. I was never saying the noise was due to the fact pads made for European brand cars are different than others. I just added that to explain the difference between Euro car brake replacements and Asian car brake replacements.

https://textar.com/ams-test/ The textar rotors and pads I buy say right on the box that they are made to German specifications.

I can upload some pictures of the training manual I got in class if you would like, might help clear up some confusion but might create more. Your call.

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I'm not doubting that new pads on old rotors isn't a good thing, and that new rotors on old pads may create some potential un even friction of the pads on the rotors

But, in my case where I kept the old pads... It has been several months and km in which my the pads would have bedded to the rotors should there have been any sort of uneven friction (I really doubt there was any but that's irrelevant now)

I just didn't really see the relevance of your original reply and then telling me I don't know how brakes work wasn't necessary but anyways I don't really care. I've gotten a rational response from VJ and that suffices my needs

The Fed said:

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where the OP stated in the OP that the car had been sitting for a long time.

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Sorry, when I said long I should've expressed what that means.... Long as in 8 hours or more, not long as in days or months where surface rust may occur and is clearly visible

Tsi7 said:

I'm not doubting that new pads on old rotors isn't a good thing, and that new rotors on old pads may create some potential un even friction of the pads on the rotors

But, in my case where I kept the old pads... It has been several months and km in which my the pads would have bedded to the rotors should there have been any sort of uneven friction (I really doubt there was any but that's irrelevant now)

I just didn't really see the relevance of your original reply and then telling I don't know how brakes work wasn't necessary but anyways I don't really care. I've gotten a rational response from VJ and that suffices my needs

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Don't take things too personal bud. After your question was answered and even before then, this was an open discussion about brakes and why they make noise. Thus my first comment was relevant, even if you felt it didn't apply to your situation. Go read the weather tech gas pedal problem thread. Very similar to this one. Adam... I mean you attacked my statement, and I have just been trying, and clearly failing, to explain it / defend it.

Wrath And Tears said:

Don't take things too personal bud. After your question was answered and even before then, this was an open discussion about brakes and why they make noise. Thus my first comment was relevant, even if you felt it didn't apply to your situation. Go read the weather tech gas pedal problem thread. Very similar to this one. Adam... I mean you attacked my statement, and I have just been trying, and clearly failing, to explain it / defend it.

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okay