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squeaky brakes when cold...

Tsi7

Ready to race!
Location
Ontario, Canada
I just noticed my front brakes are squeaky for the first couple km i drive since it has gotten cold outside (sub 0 degrees or 32 for those who don't know Celsius). I'm not worried, it's just annoying as I replaced the front rotors sometime in the summer (pads had over 50% life)... i'm sure if I took the front pads off and cleaned them and the carriers, the squeak would go away (but it's too damn cold outside to be working on a car). I'm just wondering what would cause the squeak when it's cold and why only when it's cold
 

The Fed

Old Guys Rule
Location
Florida
You replaced the rotors but not the pads at the same time? That's a no-no. I'm surprised they didn't squeal sooner. You put an uneven pad on a flat rotor.

That's as bad as putting new pads on an old rotor.
 

vj123

Autocross Newbie
Location
The Detroit
Car(s)
19 & 16 GTI - sold
There might be a thin layer of rust of the rotor when the conditions are cold or moist. First few brakes applies will clean up that thin layer and that should eliminate the noise.
 

jay745

What Would Glenn Danzig Do
Location
Slightly Outside Chicago
Car(s)
Mk6 racecar, Tacoma
Bed them in with about 10 or so 70-10mph hard stops back to back. There's nothing wrong with putting new pads on an old rotor. I typically go through about 4 sets of pads to one rotor swap. I use track pads and a bbk though so its a bit different lifespan compared to street cars.
 

The Fed

Old Guys Rule
Location
Florida
Can you even cut rotors anymore? I remember when you could cut them twice. Then carmakers wanted to save weight and made them thinner, and you were lucky you could cut them once.
 

jay745

What Would Glenn Danzig Do
Location
Slightly Outside Chicago
Car(s)
Mk6 racecar, Tacoma
Can you even cut rotors anymore? I remember when you could cut them twice. Then carmakers wanted to save weight and made them thinner, and you were lucky you could cut them once.

You can, although it's not very common. The labor you'd pay to cut the rotors would be probably the same price to just buy a new set. Rotors are really cheap these days.
 

Tsi7

Ready to race!
Location
Ontario, Canada
You replaced the rotors but not the pads at the same time? That's a no-no. I'm surprised they didn't squeal sooner. You put an uneven pad on a flat rotor.

That's as bad as putting new pads on an old rotor.

There was nothing wrong with the pads... they were in great condition and evenly worn... why get new pads when the old ones have plenty of life left... that's just a waste of both material and money

Also, Honda still machines rotors... they even pay for rotors to be machined under warranty. When they machine the rotors, or even replace them, the old pads are reused... so I don't know where you got this reusing old pads is a big no-no. Only time I see it as a big no-no is when they are unevenly worn or they are completely worn out (which is common sense... I hope)
 

Tsi7

Ready to race!
Location
Ontario, Canada
There might be a thin layer of rust of the rotor when the conditions are cold or moist. First few brakes applies will clean up that thin layer and that should eliminate the noise.

That's exactly what happens, usually after the first 4-5 times and then the noise is gone
 

Tsi7

Ready to race!
Location
Ontario, Canada
Bed them in with about 10 or so 70-10mph hard stops back to back. There's nothing wrong with putting new pads on an old rotor. I typically go through about 4 sets of pads to one rotor swap. I use track pads and a bbk though so its a bit different lifespan compared to street cars.

But i'm the opposite, I replaced rotors and kept the old pads :D I guess it would be bedding the new rotors into the old pads
 

Wrath And Tears

Go Kart Champion
Location
Azusa, CA
Car(s)
17 Sport, 99 E36
There was nothing wrong with the pads... they were in great condition and evenly worn... why get new pads when the old ones have plenty of life left... that's just a waste of both material and money

Also, Honda still machines rotors... they even pay for rotors to be machined under warranty. When they machine the rotors, or even replace them, the old pads are reused... so I don't know where you got this reusing old pads is a big no-no. Only time I see it as a big no-no is when they are unevenly worn or they are completely worn out (which is common sense... I hope)

Asian cars have different stopping requirements than German cars. No autobahn in Japan / Korea. So the pad material used for German cars are much harder and wears out the rotor faster than the pad. Because of this and the issue of noise, we replace pads and rotors together. Saves everyone time, money and a headache in the end.

I would follow Jay's advice and try bedding in the pads. New rotors won't have the embedded pad material and vibration (what causes the noise) is more likely. You can also take the pads off and hit them with some sand paper to clean them up.

Also what grease did you use on the pads and where did you put it?
 
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Tsi7

Ready to race!
Location
Ontario, Canada
Asian cars have different stopping requirements than German cars. No autobahn in Japan / Korea. So the pad material used for German cars are much harder and wears out the rotor faster than the pad. Because of this and the issue of noise, we replace pads and rotors together. Saves everyone time, money and a headache in the end.

I would follow Jay's advice and try bedding in the pads. New rotors won't have the embedded pad material and vibration (what causes the noise) is more likely. You can also take the pads off and hit them with some sand paper to clean them up.

Also what grease did you use on the pads and where did you put it?

It's been 4 months since I changed the rotors, i'm pretty sure the pads are bedded into the rotors (or vice versa) as i've done enough hard braking since then. Grease is some German stuff, forget what it's called but comes in some yellow bottle and I put it on the edges where the pad slides into the caliper carrier slot slot and a little bit on the back of the pads like i've always done with every brake job I ever did

For what it's worth.. this article says to never use new pads on old rotors... (I know it says visa versa but they only go on to explain why it's a bad idea to reuse new pads on old rotors)

https://www.blauparts.com/vw/vw_brake_parts/vw_brake_pads/vw_brake_pads_set.shtml

and also, I have no idea where you are getting this VW parts must be superior to Japanese or Korean... last time I checked, my golf was made in mexico, for the Canadian market, where there is no autobahn. I also didn't get an electronic hand brake like the the rest of world does, and my OEM pads which are made by TRW i'm pretty sure are ceramic or semi metallic pads are not racing pads.

https://www.autoanything.com/brakes/the-best-brake-pads-ceramic-or-metallic.aspx

I've driven over 200km/h on the autobahn in a volvo wagon which isn't a german car and wasn't made for the autobahn... the regular pads performed just fine
 

Wrath And Tears

Go Kart Champion
Location
Azusa, CA
Car(s)
17 Sport, 99 E36
It's been 4 months since I changed the rotors, i'm pretty sure the pads are bedded into the rotors (or vice versa) as i've done enough hard braking since then. Grease is some German stuff, forget what it's called but comes in some yellow bottle and I put it on the edges where the pad slides into the caliper carrier slot slot and a little bit on the back of the pads like i've always done with every brake job I ever did

For what it's worth.. this article says to never use new pads on old rotors... (I know it says visa versa but they only go on to explain why it's a bad idea to reuse new pads on old rotors)

https://www.blauparts.com/vw/vw_brake_parts/vw_brake_pads/vw_brake_pads_set.shtml

and also, I have no idea where you are getting this VW parts must be superior to Japanese or Korean... last time I checked, my golf was made in mexico, for the Canadian market, where there is no autobahn. I also didn't get an electronic hand brake like the the rest of world does, and my OEM pads which are made by TRW i'm pretty sure are ceramic or semi metallic pads are not racing pads.

https://www.autoanything.com/brakes/the-best-brake-pads-ceramic-or-metallic.aspx

I've driven over 200km/h on the autobahn in a volvo wagon which isn't a german car and wasn't made for the autobahn... the regular pads performed just fine

I never said anything was superior, I said different. I specified German, because we have German cars. Doesn't matter where they were built. Volvo also has to adhere to the same braking standards. So I guess I should have said European.

Here is a short read about it. Look up more about Euro car brake testing and requirements on your own if you want.

https://www.autoguru.com.au/car-adv...ake-pads-and-rotors-replaced-at-the-same-time
 
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vj123

Autocross Newbie
Location
The Detroit
Car(s)
19 & 16 GTI - sold
That's exactly what happens, usually after the first 4-5 times and then the noise is gone

Phenomenon is termed as morning sickness and is one of the most complicated issues in several brake development projects. In many cases, this issue is completely fixed for the following reasons:
- OEMs do not want to pay more for better rotor material.
- This issue comes into picture during later stages in the project (once most components are matured) and its too late to make any changes.
- Issue goes away with few brake applies and not considered to be critical.
 

Tsi7

Ready to race!
Location
Ontario, Canada
Phenomenon is termed as morning sickness and is one of the most complicated issues in several brake development projects. In many cases, this issue is completely fixed for the following reasons:
- OEMs do not want to pay more for better rotor material.
- This issue comes into picture during later stages in the project (once most components are matured) and its too late to make any changes.
- Issue goes away with few brake applies and not considered to be critical.

Huh, never heard of this term until now. Interesting, thanks for pointing it out!
 

Tsi7

Ready to race!
Location
Ontario, Canada
I never said anything was superior, I said different.

Here is a good read about it.

https://www.autoguru.com.au/car-adv...ake-pads-and-rotors-replaced-at-the-same-time

Different, which in your context given that you mentioned the autobahn, can easily imply superior...

and no offense, that article is rubbish

Most Australian’s know that owning a European car can be rather costly, especially when it comes to brake replacements.

"The reason why European car owners need to replace their brakes and rotors at the same time is due to most European manufacturers use softer compound materials in their brake rotors to increase braking performance of their vehicles.

It’s great for performance, but unfortunately, this means they wear out faster.

So, in order to restore correct braking performance, the rotors will need to be replaced with the brake pads, which could save you more money in the long run!"

Softer compound rotors, what in the hell are those? :confused: I think what they meant was softer compound pads, implying that you should replace your rotors when your pads are done, and that pads on German cars wear out faster because of the softer compound material. Horseshit, how do my pads have 50% life left after 65000km if they are so high performance?

I did read another article stating that until pads wear a little bit on the new rotor there may be some unevenness... but i've already driven 5000km since... pretty sure i've broken in the old pads on the new rotors by now
 
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