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Decision time...JB4 vs. APR..

jjeziora

New member
Location
Toronto
LOL. You guys are cracking me up:D. I really appreciate the feedback and everyone's time is valuable. And tknj99, ha, I actually am a CEO. I'm an older dog that just wanted to buy a car that was fun to drive and tinker with again. I just want it to be at least as fast as my old CLK550.

I have been doing a lot of research on this subject and it seems to always come back to being able to use your warranty vs not. Performance wise it seems that they are very comparable, but if you are adamant on the exact performance level I don't think anyone can help you other than you doing a comparison of different results that you can find on the various forums for the two different options.

With the JB4 I don't think there is a record of anyone being flagged "TD1" by dealers, so as far as I can tell you will be able to get warranty repairs for engine components done if something happens during your warranty period. Just keep in mind that you will also have to remove the unit when going for service, so this might be a factor if you use the dealer for all regular maintenance and don't want to have to remove and reinstall the unit every time you bring it in. It is approximated as a 30ish minute install/removal but depending on how savvy you are (or apparently how big your arms are) it can be done in a matter of minutes or hours. So it all depends on what your tolerance is with these things and having warranty work denied and paying out of pocket.

Performance wise there are so many different results for the options that it is really difficult to give exact numbers. Also, the way APR and BMS market their product is very different so I wouldn't just go on what is advertised. I don't know much about various APR dealers and their customer service but from my in depth reading of the various threads here, I can say without a doubt that George at BMS offers the highest level of customer service. I'm not even a customer and I can say that with confidence.. He is very active on the forums here as well...

Just a few thoughts.. I am by no means an expert and don't have any experience with either so take all this with a grain of salt obviously. I have just read a lot lately so thought I would share my interpretation of this.
 

Reboot

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Texas
LOL. You guys are cracking me up:D. I really appreciate the feedback and everyone's time is valuable. And tknj99, ha, I actually am a CEO. I'm an older dog that just wanted to buy a car that was fun to drive and tinker with again. I just want it to be at least as fast as my old CLK550.

Thank you for being a good sport and ok with a little ribbing.

Now to address your need, to match the performance of the CLK550 you will need a minimum of IS38 turbo with a tune which means you can kiss your drivetrain warranty goodbye . The GTI's are very fast once they have a running start, but if you want 0-60 speed the R is the best platform since it can put the power to all 4 tires at the same time.
 

Crackness1

Ready to race!
Location
Sunny Florida
LOL. You guys are cracking me up:D... I just want it to be at least as fast as my old CLK550.

Thank you for being a good sport and ok with a little ribbing.

Now to address your need, to match the performance of the CLK550 you will need a minimum of IS38 turbo with a tune which means you can kiss your drivetrain warranty goodbye . The GTI's are very fast once they have a running start, but if you want 0-60 speed the R is the best platform since it can put the power to all 4 tires at the same time.

This :thumbsup:.

My opinion (as this is what I did) is that you should do a couple of things for the full "fun to drive" experience:

Get a JB4. This will be the welcome to the "more power club". Don't remember if you mentioned whether you're DSG or 6 speed, but if you're 6 speed, the "more power club" will become the "could use a new clutch if I want to go full throttle" club. Also, you can add / remove within 20 minutes, you can buy it used for cheap and sell it when you're ready to move on.

Get new wheels and tires - more specifically wheels that are lightweight, and better performing tires (within your comfort $$ amount). This will add to the quicker feeling, as well as making the car feel more nimble and fun to drive.

Intake. Yes, this is a "useless" but i'm not advocating that you spend much on this. If you like to experience the different sounds of a turbo charged engine, this will let you hear the turbo spool when you get heavy on the throttle, without being annoying like a blow-off (strictly my opinion, I'm not hating, do as you like).

Catted Downpipe. This one is one is dual purpose - will give you more power and sound. Stage 2 type of mod, and a little higher up on the "warranty affecting risk" than the above mods.

Those are the important ones. Intercooler may be optional depending on weather in your area and whether you like to run pulls back to back or track the car.

There's plenty more, but if you're looking mainly straight line performance, adding to the fun to drive feeling, and you can probably install all/most in your garage / driveway, those fit the bill.
 

MyGolfMk7

Go Kart Newbie
Location
FL
Car(s)
B5 S4, Mk7 GTI
Just as a point of information.

You don't get to just keep your powertrain warranty and have the JB.

What you gain is the ability to more easily defraud VW if you pop your turbo.

Mostly kidding, but it's important to note how exactly you keep the warranty intact.

This is a good point. It may well be that you end up rolling the dice on if you want to take your chances with warranty fraud.

If you have a problem potentially connected to the JB4 and VW asks if the engine was modified, how do you plan to respond? Something to think about.
 

Crackness1

Ready to race!
Location
Sunny Florida
This is a good point. It may well be that you end up rolling the dice on if you want to take your chances with warranty fraud.

If you have a problem potentially connected to the JB4 and VW asks if the engine was modified, how do you plan to respond? Something to think about.

Sigh... As long as people and corporations will use loopholes to pay less taxes, I don't see a problem with using a loophole to get warranty work when a part fails.

Do you feel that people who had turbos with defects from the factory (aka 2015 gti's) should have to pay out because the turbo blew if it had a jb1/jb4 on it?
 

George Smooth

Drag Race Newbie
Location
South Africa
Sigh... As long as people and corporations will use loopholes to pay less taxes, I don't see a problem with using a loophole to get warranty work when a part fails.

Do you feel that people who had turbos with defects from the factory (aka 2015 gti's) should have to pay out because the turbo blew if it had a jb1/jb4 on it?

The reason we do lower torque than the flash tuners is we avoid running the turbo on spool up to hit high torque numbers. This avoids compressor surge which most people call DV flutter hence us having only 1 turbo failure on a GTI in the US over thousands of cars.

For the OP going from a V8 to the GTI the torque might be needed though but relative to how he drives its pretty much useless in the early gears since its spin city.

Other CON will be the speed limiter still being present.
 

mctriple

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Woodbridge, VA
Wow, only 1 turbo failure after all this time? I went back to map 1 over map 2 with a stock GTI on 93 fuel, thinking it might be a little safer for longevity, since my car is at 1,400 miles.

Would you say map 1 is any more safe on the turbo than map 2 in that situation? Sounds like both are totally fine?
 

psychonosspaz

Go Kart Champion
Location
PNW
Wow, only 1 turbo failure after all this time? I went back to map 1 over map 2 with a stock GTI on 93 fuel, thinking it might be a little safer for longevity, since my car is at 1,400 miles.

Would you say map 1 is any more safe on the turbo than map 2 in that situation? Sounds like both are totally fine?



They are both fine - map 1 would be more suitable for stock clutch longevity
 

George Smooth

Drag Race Newbie
Location
South Africa
Wow, only 1 turbo failure after all this time? I went back to map 1 over map 2 with a stock GTI on 93 fuel, thinking it might be a little safer for longevity, since my car is at 1,400 miles.

Would you say map 1 is any more safe on the turbo than map 2 in that situation? Sounds like both are totally fine?

Both have similar spool characteristics.
 

JC_451

Autocross Champion
Location
NJ, one of the nice parts.
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
Sigh... As long as people and corporations will use loopholes to pay less taxes...

Obfuscation of the act is not a loop-hole.

This is like saying:

"Well they didn't have security cameras over there so I thought it was okay to steal that stuff"

Justification of unethical behavior is called rationalization.

That, uh, doesn't make it right :p
 

teslas123

New member
From what little I know. It is my understanding that the APR gives you extra power at all levels of throttle throughout all gears. While you have to get on the throttle with the jbl4 before you get the results.

OP, it depends what kind of driving experience you want.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

Crackness1

Ready to race!
Location
Sunny Florida
Obfuscation of the act is not a loop-hole.

This is like saying:

"Well they didn't have security cameras over there so I thought it was okay to steal that stuff"

Justification of unethical behavior is called rationalization.

That, uh, doesn't make it right :p

Yes, it's rationalization. But that's a false equivalence. I'm modifying the vehicle I own, and it's mine to add/ remove modifications at my leisure, right?

Also, of all the times I've heard of people having warranty claims denied due to a completely unrelated modification on a vehicle, turnabout is fair play.

Or are you saying you'll never take your car in for a warranty repair because you race it / launch it hard / treat it like a race car even though it isn't?
 

mctriple

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Woodbridge, VA
They are both fine - map 1 would be more suitable for stock clutch longevity

Any negatives trade-offs for a DSG instead of manual when using map 2 over map 1? Seems like the "more aggressive" map would have some sort of trade-off, but then it also sounds from the lack of issues like neither are risky, assuming stock & 93 octane.
 

NeedSleep

Go Kart Champion
Location
USA
Car(s)
2016 Golf R DSG
Any negatives trade-offs for a DSG instead of manual when using map 2 over map 1? Seems like the "more aggressive" map would have some sort of trade-off, but then it also sounds from the lack of issues like neither are risky, assuming stock & 93 octane.

A trade-off with any piggyback and tune is the increase of boost beyond what the manufacturer deemed to be appropriate (up to you if you want to read this as "safe") for the vehicle when they developed it. The more boost you add (map 2 adding more boost higher in the rev range, whereas map 1 adds 4psi across the board), the more risk you take.

If you want to check if map 2 is okay on your car, you can log with the JB4 and post it on the JB4 logging thread for others to help evaluate. Do note that if it gets warm outside, the stock intercooler may not be able to cope, and the higher IAT can cause timing pull. At that point, you can lower boost, mix some ethanol, or upgrade your intercooler.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
 

JC_451

Autocross Champion
Location
NJ, one of the nice parts.
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
Yes, it's rationalization. But that's a false equivalence. I'm modifying the vehicle I own, and it's mine to add/ remove modifications at my leisure, right?

Also, of all the times I've heard of people having warranty claims denied due to a completely unrelated modification on a vehicle, turnabout is fair play.

Or are you saying you'll never take your car in for a warranty repair because you race it / launch it hard / treat it like a race car even though it isn't?

I'm just messing around bro, but doubling down on the rationalization still doesn't make it ethical.

It's not a false equivalence. If you violate an agreement and then cover up that you've violated it to still gain some kind of benefit from it you're stealing.

Anyway, that's in the world of things being black and white. I understand what you're saying, just giving you a bit of the business to entertain myself.:p

Apologies!
 
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