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Old 09-21-2018, 09:08 PM   #1
LJT94
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Question Stage one mk7 GTI - Questions

Sorry if this has already been done but from what I've managed to find I don't think it has. I've seen a lot of posts on stage one mk7 R but not (m)any on the GTI.

So I've just got a couple of questions for anyone who's done stage one or even stage two on the mk7 GTI.
I'm thinking of getting it done next month, my local two dealers are about an hour away and one provides Revo while the other does APR.
So the questions...

APR or Revo?
I have asked this before and was told APR can be peaky and unpredictable whereas Revo is more known to be OEM like in terms of smoothness and a less harsh torque curve.

I'm 6MT, Should I grab a clutch straight away or try and run stage one until I slip and then grab one?
So this is probably one of my bigger questions, my local Revo dealer have said that I should be fine without an uprated clutch with stage one as they have done plenty in the past with no problems. My local APR dealer has told me that they can offer low output stage one which limits the torque until further up in the rev range to protect the clutch longevity but stated that they would get a Sachs sintered paddle clutch if I was to upgrade as this would be adequate for stage 2 if I went that far.

Has anyone any experience with Sachs organic clutch, could you recommend it?
I would probably go Sachs organic if I got a clutch as I've read that's more OEM like compared to the sintered clutch. Can anyone give me any reviews and recommendations of clutches?

Should I uprate my engine and lower torque mounts?
I read somewhere (can you tell I've tried to do a bit of reading behind this ) that the wheel hop with stock mounts can be pretty bad. I was looking at Revo mounts.

Should I just save my money and get an R?
I love my car but seriously would the money be better saved and put into a faster stock car, M140i or R? Although I do like the idea of being able to have a 300bhp GTI as people will sort of sleep on it
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:19 PM   #2
dub_guy
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Read the sticky on the commandments.

You will need a clutch. On JB4 and Eurodyne Stage 1 I've been slipping. It's only a matter of time before it'll go.

Sent from some random mobile time waster.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:46 PM   #3
bdelaney4000
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Save up for a clutch and replace it when it starts to slip... that threshold is different for everyone based on driving style and manufacturer tolerances. When increasing power you should def upgrade your mounts to make better use of your power. I've got a set of stage 1 BFI mounts up on my thread if you're interested.

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40313

For tunes there are other options out there (COBB AP, Eurodyne Maestro, etc...) that offer OTS tunes but also offer the ability to protune. The nice part is resale value if you ever decide to get rid of them you don't get that with some of the other flash tunes.

All boils down to your goals for the car.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:58 PM   #4
LJT94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub_guy View Post
Read the sticky on the commandments.

You will need a clutch. On JB4 and Eurodyne Stage 1 I've been slipping. It's only a matter of time before it'll go.

Sent from some random mobile time waster.
I did see that yeah, just wasn't sure if I'd be better to go straight to it or to try run it a while to give myself a little time to save for one
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:13 PM   #5
CarlosCanizares
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJT94 View Post
I did see that yeah, just wasn't sure if I'd be better to go straight to it or to try run it a while to give myself a little time to save for one
Modding a car is like running a business. As a business owner myself, I have limited cash = limited buying power. If I can buy something I need later, I will unless it’s on sale.

I ran my stock Mk7 GTI clutch on ED Stage 2 for over 20K one and it only slipped in low RPM/high load situations which was “fixed” with a down shift or two.

In my R, I’m slightly slipping in similar scenarios with my JB1. Since I plan on going full HPA goodness in a few years, I’ll replace the clutch when it’s totally slipping so I can also do a Wavetrac if my boss (wife) allows me to expense it lol.
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:23 PM   #6
blunted_brick
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Either APR or Revo will put a smile on your face... I've only used APR so can't comment on Revo. My experience with APR stage 1 tunes on both Mk6 and Mk7 both really woke the cars up. If you have doubts or are concerned about peaky torque, APR has low-torque versions of their tunes - i guess a lot of folks requested it (imho torque is what makes it fun)


As others have said, you'll likely need a clutch in the not-too-distant future. If you're not tracking or taking long road trips far from home, i'd just romp on the factory clutch until it starts going - that way you'll get the experiential bonus of having a clutch go, and the second bonus of experiencing the better one that replaces the one you wore out. Flog it to death!!!


No experience with Sachs clutch, i had the South Bend stage 2 daily and loved it. Being SMFW it was much noisier than stock but i happened to love the noise and it held up to tracking no problem.


Can't comment on uprated mounts either, didn't have 'em on the Mk6 and don't have 'em on the Mk7. Wheel hop can be quite violent but once you experience it you'll learn to lift a little when you sense the onset of wheel spin. YMMV


Don't save your money under any circumstances. SPEND, SPEND, SPEND!!!
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Old 09-22-2018, 11:40 AM   #7
dub_guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJT94 View Post
I did see that yeah, just wasn't sure if I'd be better to go straight to it or to try run it a while to give myself a little time to save for one
I'd say run it for a bit. It will slip and then you'll get to the point where it will need to be done. Some seem to have the luck and it lasts longer before it slips. Just be sure to start prepping the budget for the expense. I ran JB4, started slipping, pulled the JB4 and then was fine until I put on the Eurodyne Stage 1, but at that point I'd already ordered my new clutch.

Sent from some random mobile time waster.
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Old 09-22-2018, 01:07 PM   #8
LJT94
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Originally Posted by dub_guy View Post
I'd say run it for a bit. It will slip and then you'll get to the point where it will need to be done. Some seem to have the luck and it lasts longer before it slips. Just be sure to start prepping the budget for the expense. I ran JB4, started slipping, pulled the JB4 and then was fine until I put on the Eurodyne Stage 1, but at that point I'd already ordered my new clutch.

Sent from some random mobile time waster.
Sorry to be a rookie here but what will the clutch slipping be like?
How will I know?

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Old 09-22-2018, 01:22 PM   #9
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Pretty simple - you put your foot down, revs go up, car doesn't accelerate at the same speed, and then the revs will drop as the clutch catches.


Sent from some random mobile time waster.
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Old 09-22-2018, 01:26 PM   #10
LJT94
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Originally Posted by dub_guy View Post
Pretty simple - you put your foot down, revs go up, car doesn't accelerate at the same speed, and then the revs will drop as the clutch catches.


Sent from some random mobile time waster.
I knew it would be something simple haha, just wasn't sure mate. Thanks

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Old 09-22-2018, 07:26 PM   #11
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I just added unitronic stage 1 a few days ago. It's quite nice. Car accelerates along seemingly the same curve as stock, just much harder. It's not an "on/off" switch kind of thing which is what I didn't want. Between 2700 and 5000 is just fantastic. I only wish power could come on a bit lower.

As far as the clutch goes, as of now (40k miles before tune) it doesn't slip at all. I'm going to try to keep going on it as long as possible. I DON'T do crazy hard launches or try and avoid downshifting, so that should help.

I can definitely generate wheel hop and/or traction loss if I push too hard. I have an hpa dogbone and ecs mounts waiting to go in, but it's not vital I do it yet.

I liked the unitronic experience, fwiw. I'm a pretty hard core diy'er (and work as software engineer) so being able to control it all and not be at a dealers mercy appealed to me more than anything.

Good luck.
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:27 PM   #12
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All of the APR being too aggressive or peaky are BS rumors started by other tuners. Iíve had two APR tuned cars and thatís not the case at all on stage 1 or 2.

Do the clutch delay valve removal or ECS bleeder block and be nice to the clutch. As in donít floor it at low RPM like itís a diesel. My car went 40k miles on the stock clutch stage 1 with a TBE and intake and it was still like new when I pulled it out.

BFI dog bone insert is a must, even at stock power. Stage 1 or 2 pending your preference. I have all three of their stage 2 mounts, video on that and DKM stage 3 clutch on my channel linked from my SIG below
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:58 AM   #13
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FOLLOWING, I have a mk 7.5 and just picked it up but don't feel like doing a clutch right away, I like Unitronic based on what I read about it so far. eventually a south bend stage 2 endurance looks like the way to go.
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:53 AM   #14
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APR.

Yes you need a clutch. Sachs SRE is a good one.

Definitely get mounts. Get them before you get a tune.

Also get tires.


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Old 09-24-2018, 03:13 AM   #15
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Some have mentioned waiting to you really need a new clutch. If the clutch slips too much you will need a new flywheel as well. I have APR Stage One. I had minimal clutch slip when I had the new Sachs SRE clutch installed and was able to reuse the original flywheel. 30,000 miles later the clutch is doing fine, no issues. No rattle because I am using the original dual mass flywheel. Single mass flywheels can rattle at idle speed.
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:52 PM   #16
LJT94
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Okay thanks guys, just another question if anyone can throw me a bone.
Local APR dealership have said they will do Stage one and a Sachs organic clutch for £1750, Revo dealer will match this.
The remap is £600 and I have seen the clutch online for £600, so they're after £550 labour. Is this fair or are they having my pants down?
Would a run of the mill garage fit a clutch for cheaper if I sourced it myself?
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:53 PM   #17
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Some have mentioned waiting to you really need a new clutch. If the clutch slips too much you will need a new flywheel as well. I have APR Stage One. I had minimal clutch slip when I had the new Sachs SRE clutch installed and was able to reuse the original flywheel. 30,000 miles later the clutch is doing fine, no issues. No rattle because I am using the original dual mass flywheel. Single mass flywheels can rattle at idle speed.
Thanks man, think I will get the clutch done same time or before the map and then as you say it preserves parts of the clutch I risk damaging by running it and taking my chances
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