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NQSBBK vs PP Brakes

DAS_STIG

DAS_STIG

Banned
Location
Chicago
I have been searching but cannot seem to find a good answer for this:

Which brake setup is better for track - the Porsche 986 4-piston brake setup on 312 mm non-PP rotors or the GTI PP/Golf R front brakes using 340 mm rotors?

By better I mean more capable of holding up on track? From what I have read the larger rotors are better able to absorb/shed heat, but I have found some threads that say the NQSBBK is actually better at regulating temps. This seems counter-intuitive since the 986 brakes enclose the pads more and I would guess they get hotter under hard driving with less air flow over the pads themselves. Does the larger 986 caliper volume act as a better heat sink though?
 
Jarbear

Jarbear

Ready to race!
Location
SF Bay Area
I think in terms of track duty, either is fine with good pads and better brake fluid with a higher boiling point, since that's usually the weak point.

I guess the benefits of the 986 caliper is the pad changing system and less deflection with the solid caliper, whereas the PP have a larger rotor diameter with greater heat dissipation and has greater force when stopping the car vs a smaller rotor (think torque when using a ratchet vs breaker bar, if that makes sense)
 
golfdave

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
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depends if you want lightest unsprung weight...& greater pad choice...& more even clamping as from both sides & spread over the pads more (& thus better temp spread instead of uneven & one side on the "R")..so better braking to make up for the disc being smaller....

Mind you the R calipers you can thrash & get rebuild kits easy..& only one seal to replace...
 
B

Bäsemödel

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lancaster PA
My buddy yirayira just did this swap to the NQS setup...perhaps he can comment?
 
sprinks

sprinks

Drag Racing Champion
Location
United States
^That'd be awesome to hear. I think there are very few people with experience (and track experience no less) with both.

As said previously, perks of the 986 kit was multi-piston, more pad selection, and keeping the 312 rotors.

I think coupling both with high temp fluid, some brake ventilation (RS3 vents at minimum), and ti brake shims (on 986 or the PP cals) and you're looking at a decent setup.
 
DAS_STIG

DAS_STIG

Banned
Location
Chicago
To throw more options in it now seems like the TTS 4 piston calipers fit our 340mm rotors. Might be just a couple hundred $ more than PP setup.

I read yirayira's posts and he likes the setup, but not sure if he can compare well to the PP setup.
 
Swoope

Swoope

Ready to race!
Location
orlando
i would skip most of it till you are on well into intermediate 2. or you are having brake issues..

the money you spend on brake upgrades now is money not learning on track.. you need to learn before your stuff needs to be fixed.

food for thought..

btw, did two 20 min sessions on stock fluid and porterfield R4 race pads.

on the sebring club course. killer on brakes.

pad choice is critical.

beers
 
DAS_STIG

DAS_STIG

Banned
Location
Chicago
swoope said:
i would skip most of it till you are on well into intermediate 2. or you are having brake issues..
Click to expand...

Did you forget my other threads about scorching my brakes and disintegrating my pads? :p

I am trying to find a reasonably priced setup rather than going with one of the super fancy $3000 bbks specifically for the reasons you listed. I feel like I am overdriving the 312mm setup and would benefit from a bit of an upgrade that just a good set of pads won't provide. My experience is limited obviously so input is always welcome, but my brakes were getting soft even when they seemed to be working well and not falling apart. This seems like a general overheating issue rather than questionable pad quality. I guess one can cause the other though.
 
Swoope

Swoope

Ready to race!
Location
orlando
the only way to find out is to try a real set of track pads on the front.

i went through this with a friend that had a mini cooper s. he did end up with a bbk, that was just because of one track we run.

sebring short course. ~115 to 40 then a ~100 to 50. this course kills brakes!

on my check ride had my instructor ask 3 times if my brakes were ok.

i said they were fine and they were. got checked off solo.

second session of day. the ebc yellows failed hard. had to drive around them for the rest of the day.

i would spend the money to try real track pad vs a bbk as you are going to be learning for a long time. the money you save will buy more seat time.

the 340 size gti brakes were fine on the sebring short course with porterfield s4 pads and just stock fluid. that is impressive..

stock pads in rear.

i would look at
carbotech x12
porterfield s4
colbalt friction xr2

or others that are mentioned here, but these i have used.
street / track pads are not an option for you.

beers
 
WhyNotZoidberg?

WhyNotZoidberg?

Ready to race!
Location
Chi-Town
Car(s)
2017 GTI, 2015 TDI
Dybz said:
I have been searching but cannot seem to find a good answer for this:

Which brake setup is better for track - the Porsche 986 4-piston brake setup on 312 mm non-PP rotors or the GTI PP/Golf R front brakes using 340 mm rotors?

By better I mean more capable of holding up on track? From what I have read the larger rotors are better able to absorb/shed heat, but I have found some threads that say the NQSBBK is actually better at regulating temps. This seems counter-intuitive since the 986 brakes enclose the pads more and I would guess they get hotter under hard driving with less air flow over the pads themselves. Does the larger 986 caliper volume act as a better heat sink though?
Click to expand...

The stock calipers are floating single piston cost-cutting crap that VAG thought a coat of red paint would make people believe they are 'performance brakes'. They are more than adequate for the street, track duty not so much.

Fixed multiple pistons calipers will ALWAYS be better compared to floating, and that's even before you get into the unsprung weight savings from alu calipers to the stock boat anchors, and the heat dissipation characteristics difference.
 
DAS_STIG

DAS_STIG

Banned
Location
Chicago
WhyNotZoidberg? said:
The stock calipers are floating single piston cost-cutting crap that VAG thought a coat of red paint would make people believe they are 'performance brakes'. They are more than adequate for the street, track duty not so much.

Fixed multiple pistons calipers will ALWAYS be better compared to floating, and that's even before you get into the unsprung weight savings from alu calipers to the stock boat anchors, and the heat dissipation characteristics difference.
Click to expand...

"Better" how? It seems like the stock ones are more open and would allow more air flow to cool components. I understand fixed calipers with multiple pistons will provide better brake modulation, but do they provide better maximum clamping force? Do they keep the brake fluid cooler since they seem to spread the fluid out more rather than concentrate it on one piston?
 
WhyNotZoidberg?

WhyNotZoidberg?

Ready to race!
Location
Chi-Town
Car(s)
2017 GTI, 2015 TDI
Dybz said:
"Better" how? It seems like the stock ones are more open and would allow more air flow to cool components. I understand fixed calipers with multiple pistons will provide better brake modulation, but do they provide better maximum clamping force? Do they keep the brake fluid cooler since they seem to spread the fluid out more rather than concentrate it on one piston?
Click to expand...

Cast iron vs alu heat conductivity, also more volume & surface on the 4 pistons caliper. Remember the floating one is in fact only half a caliper (brake fluid only goes in the piston half).

More linear clamping characteristics & modulation are also on the side of the fixed caliper..

The only advantage the floating calipers have is cost at the expense of everything else.
 
DAS_STIG

DAS_STIG

Banned
Location
Chicago
WhyNotZoidberg? said:
Cast iron vs alu heat conductivity, also more volume & surface on the 4 pistons caliper. Remember the floating one is in fact only half a caliper (brake fluid only goes in the piston half).

More linear clamping characteristics & modulation are also on the side of the fixed caliper..

The only advantage the floating calipers have is cost at the expense of everything else.
Click to expand...

Thanks, did not consider the heat conductivity and also the heat capacity of aluminum vs cast iron. Seems like the aluminum brakes would stay a lot cooler under the exact same conditions, not even considering the large size of the NQSBBK caliper.
 
DAS_STIG

DAS_STIG

Banned
Location
Chicago
Looks like there are a number of salvage yards near me that have 986 non-S brakes available for ~$100 each. Seems like quite a nice price and cheaper than a PP setup even after brackets/rebuild kits. Think I'll pick up a set before next track season.

Sorry swoope, but my confidence in the stock 312mm brakes is shot, dont see myself pushing the car if I dont upgrade.
 
Last edited:
B

Bäsemödel

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lancaster PA
Dybz said:
Looks like there are a number of salvage yards near me that have 986 non-S brakes available for ~$100 each. Seems like quite a nice price and cheaper than a PP setup even after brackets/rebuild kits. Think I'll pick up a set before next track season.

Sorry swoope, but my confidence in the stock 312mm brakes is shot, dont see myself pushing the car if I dont upgrade.
Click to expand...

for my own understanding, this in within the context of tracking the car correct? Or have you lost confidence on them w street use? Also (apologies if youve mentioned it) what tires are you running?
 
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