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Old 03-22-2017, 06:49 PM   #18
GolfWang
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Originally Posted by gtowngovernor View Post
Not to be a pain here, but ... I mean ... I am kind of a noob here and I am afraid to touch things I dont know things about. What are the pros / cons of removing this thing. Maybe it's worth it for me just to leave it as is? lol.



I appreciate you guys helping me out!


you're driving a golf r which means you appreciate performance. As such, you'd be crazy not to do the CDV + return spring deletes. They're designed to minimize driveline shock caused by improper clutch actuation, and are realistically only beneficial to new manual drivers, and at that rate only for the first few months of them driving stick. Anyone who's been driving stick for at least 2/3 months would be better off without these nannies.

Every person who has owned manuals for most of their lives are appalled by the effects the Clutch Delay Valve and Return Spring have on the clutch operation of these cars. Whenever someone performs the deletes, their reported feelings about the differences are invariably "Now it feels like a clutch is SUPPOSED to!" Or, "I thought something was wrong with it before, now I KNOW there was!" lol

Here are the threads for the deletes, and how to perform them. If you're really that inexperienced, you'd be better off doing the CDV delete with a buddy who has at least bled a clutch before.

CDV delete: http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14745

Clutch Spring delete: http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21157
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Old 03-22-2017, 06:55 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by gtowngovernor View Post
It does sound awfully close to what actually is happening based on my feel.
ECS has a nice kit with a well made CDV omission device + stainless steel hydraulic line as the top $ way to rid your car of the CDV. Simply gutting the OE part is the no part cost way. Removing the helper spring is really simple, requires removing the kick panel and a hook tool or pliers.

VW put all this junk in the car to make it easy for 95% of the people on the planet to drive the car. If you are here on this forum, you are likely the other 5% and don't want or need that "aid".

Remove those devices and you will be rewarded, trust us.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:05 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by KLEEMANN1 View Post
ECS has a nice kit with a well made CDV omission device + stainless steel hydraulic line as the top $ way to rid your car of the CDV. Simply gutting the OE part is the no part cost way. Removing the helper spring is really simple, requires removing the kick panel and a hook tool or pliers.

VW put all this junk in the car to make it easy for 95% of the people on the planet to drive the car. If you are here on this forum, you are likely the other 5% and don't want or need that "aid".

Remove those devices and you will be rewarded, trust us.
IDK what a "kick panel is," but i didn't have to "remove" shit, besides the spring itself.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:06 PM   #21
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They shouldn't have put these dumb things in their flagship/enthusiast golf. They should have only used them in the regular golf and maybe gti.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:07 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by GolfWang View Post
IDK what a "kick panel is," but i didn't have to "remove" shit, besides the spring itself.
Well, since you linked it, I think he meant this step:

"2. Unscrew T20 size torx screw from panel to left of clutch pedal that is near OBDII port. Pull panel forward to remove. This step gives clear view and easier access to spring."
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:16 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by KLEEMANN1 View Post
RPM hang with the clutch in and throttle off is a byproduct of flywheel inertia. Slow uptake of the clutch pedal after a rapid depress is a byproduct of the CDV + over center clutch helper spring.
KLEEMANN1 nailed it. I can take my foot off the clutch fast enough while shifting that the clutch pedal loses contact with my foot (as could most people if they tried). When my foot isn't moving as fast, the CDV and spring make the clutch feel lighter than it otherwise would. While many people may prefer the feel of the clutch pedal after making these changes, they seem totally unrelated to what the OP is talking about, unless I am misunderstanding him.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:42 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by gtowngovernor View Post
Appreciate the honesty. Any volunteers in the Bay Area?
Sure, I'm in the East Bay in Pleasanton if you wanna shoot over the hills.

If you're driving in 3rd, then change to 4th, do the RPM's not go back down immediately even with the clutch depressed(rev hang)? OR, do the RPM's go back to that RPM you shifted from in 3rd/start to climb up once you've gotten into 4th gear then start giving it throttle?

If the latter, and you're not actually accelerating with your RPM's going higher, your clutch is toast. Does it only happen in higher gears like 3,4,5,6th, or does it happen in any gear?

You could always try putting it in 6th gear at really low RPM then flooring it. This, I guess, is a way some people diagnose their clutch being good or bad. Not sure how accurate it is though.
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Last edited by Firstboost; 03-22-2017 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:48 PM   #25
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Sure, I'm in the East Bay in Pleasanton if you wanna shoot over the hills.

If you're driving in 3rd, then change to 4th, do the RPM's not go back down immediately even with the clutch depressed(rev hang)? OR, do the RPM's go back to that RPM you shifted from in 3rd/start to climb up once you've gotten into 4th gear then start giving it throttle?

If the latter, and you're not actually accelerating with your RPM's going higher, your clutch is toast. Does it only happen in higher gears like 3,4,5,6th, or does it happen in any gear?

You could always try putting it in 6th gear at really low RPM then flooring it. This, I guess, is a way some people diagnose their clutch being good or bad. Not sure how accurate it is though.
Thanks! Yeah it would be the latter, I just have to give it a half a second to adjust. The power is there though for all other scenarios so I dont know if the clutch is toast. I have noticed this only between gears 3 - 4.

I will do the test today and get back to you guys. Appreciate you guys being so helpful!

As far as driving to Pleasanton, that sounds good. I'll PM you, if you're available anytime this weekend!
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:50 PM   #26
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Try it in 6th at low rpm.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:57 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by gtowngovernor View Post
Thanks! Yeah it would be the latter, I just have to give it a half a second to adjust. The power is there though for all other scenarios so I dont know if the clutch is toast. I have noticed this only between gears 3 - 4.

I will do the test today and get back to you guys. Appreciate you guys being so helpful!

As far as driving to Pleasanton, that sounds good. I'll PM you, if you're available anytime this weekend!
Yeah, I may be a little hungover Saturday morning from going to the Warriors game Friday night, but other than that, I'm good lol.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:59 PM   #28
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Yeah, I may be a little hungover Saturday morning from going to the Warriors game Friday night, but other than that, I'm good lol.
a huge Warriors fan myself!
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:04 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by radoroc View Post
Drive in 6th at 2000rpm, floor it and if the rpm's climb but you're not going faster then it's slipping.
Try this first.
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(Mostly) Posted by Josh/AWE. Flapper valves are open at idle, close after 1100 RPM during part throttle. Full throttle 1st-4th gear the valves open until throttle let off. 4th gear, 1500 RPM to full throttle closed, closed until 3500 RPM, then open until lift off throttle.
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:57 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by gtowngovernor View Post
.........When I am at a high RPM range like on 3rd gear (lets say ~5500) and I super-quickly shift up and press back on the gas (all very fast), somehow the transmission does not adjust the RPMs down (to lets say ~4000) and keeps the RPM where it was on the previous gear.....
I believe what you described is typical "feature" called rev hang, present in many recent car models. This website provides explanation with graphs and videos.

BTW, the clutch delay valve (CDV) slows down the return action of the clutch, making it easier for people not good at driving manuals to prevent accidental stalling on take-offs. Its removal will give the clutch a more direct feel but it will not cure the rev hang. Its removal could expose the driveline to more severe shocks if you keep dumping the clutch repeatedly, but nobody does it on purpose unless they are drag racing. The over-centre spring just reduces the force required to hold the clutch pedal down (e.g when waiting at traffic lights with gear engaged).

Last edited by aquasurf; 03-22-2017 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:39 PM   #31
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Alrighty. So I did what everyone suggested to try.

Went on 6th gear around 2K rpm, and floored it. The car slowly started going faster, in accordance with rpms slowly growing, and then I heard the turbo kick in and it went even faster, again, with about the same rate as the rpms went up. No slippage whatsoever. Then I did the same in the 4th gear. No slippage. 3rd. No slippage.

No slippage no slippage no slippage

I think my clutch is fine. I am not a terrible driver to have ruined my clutch in 12,000 miles, never taken my car to the race track. I just push the car once in a while for fun. But hey, did not hurt to confirm that my clutch is fine.

Must be something else. It does seem to be that it is somehow connected to the CDV. It "feels" more like the car prevents going in gear rather than go on gear and slip.
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:42 PM   #32
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Glad it isn't slipping!
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:18 PM   #33
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Glad you were able to rule that out OP!
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:40 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by aquasurf View Post
I believe what you described is typical "feature" called rev hang, present in many recent car models. This website provides explanation with graphs and videos.
.
Thank you AquaSurf. It makes perfect sense.

"Basically the problem for drivers used to driving cars built before the rev hang existed (circa 2005-07) is one of annoyance and mental adjustment when driving new cars with rev hang. In the old days, we used to accelerate in low gear, back off the throttle, hit the clutch, select the next higher gear, release the clutch again and apply power, all within about 0.6 to 1 second, or faster or slower, as desired. Cars with the rev hang require a forced pause between backing off throttle and depressing the clutch to change gears. If the pause is not allowed, depressing the clutch immediately after backing off the throttle results in clearly perceivable increase in the engine speed at the time when it is least needed. This is caused by the ECM induced slow drop of revs and is not helped by the fact that disengaging the clutch too early lifts the load off the engine, until then working hard to drag the mass of the car forward. Clearly, the engine revs would shoot up when load is lifted off the engine that is still being operated under power by instructions from the ECM and not from the right foot of the driver."
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