jay745
What Would Glenn Danzig Do
- Location
- Slightly Outside Chicago
- Car(s)
- Mk6 racecar, Tacoma
Are you capable of replying without insulting other members? Maybe a break might do you some good. I can make that happen. Let me know.
7
2019 GTI revealed in Australia
- Thread starter vj123
- Start date
Are you capable of replying without insulting other members? Maybe a break might do you some good. I can make that happen. Let me know.
Lots of individual vehicles have ATs claiming or offering better consumption ratings than the available MT. Doesnt say anything about which transmission TYPE is fundamentally more thermodynamically efficient. Almost always, in specific vehicle offerings, where the AT rates better on consumption, the AT has different ratio sets, more gears to play with, or isnt a traditional automatic. THAT is the reason for the difference, not simply the TYPE of gearbox.
In your example, it appears youre comparing a fixed gear manual box (5 or 6 ratios?) to a CVT, which is hardly apples to apples. Were an MT to be geared for slower speeds, it would be as good, or better, on consumption. But a CVT will have an advantage in ratio spread, allowing it to be at optimal engine speed at ANY road speed. This is a cool thing, but CVTs also have significant limitations/compromises, so again not an apples to apples fair trade. If you only want a low power engine and best economy, a CVT may be a good thing. But serious engine power? What about maintenance and longevity? These are some reasons you can't call a CVT "better" based solely on the one criteria.
Doesn't matter--Honda teaches to the test. So does every other automaker. The EPA cycle rules. And if Honda can get consumer acceptance that also meets the test requirements. that's what they'll do.
But none of that has any bearing on the sales lot in front of the buying customer.
Strange Mud
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Small Town CT
- Car(s)
- Assorted
I agree with Adam on this.
in order of importance:
Consumers (aka Sheeple)
EPA
Enthusiasts
most of us on car forums are car geeks. We enjoy cars....many people just want transportation that fits their ideal combo of practicality, style, price, performance, economy. Some want status....many of us here value performance more than avg. Even people like me that only drives it hard 1 or 2x per week.
bonus fact: I did the long way home this week...10 miles of two lane twisty roads. There is one corner that is a real hard left 90 deg + corner (acute?) if you look about 200 feet before the turn you have a sight line through the trees and can tell if you can cut into the opposing lane...clear so I blasted through it right onto fresh chip seal!!!.......slid about 4 feet over before it caught. I'm glad I cut into the other lane or I would have been into the field.
for city folk chip sealing is when they coat the road with a thin layer of sticky tar then put pea gravel on top of that. When it's fresh imagine sticky ball bearings.......
in order of importance:
Consumers (aka Sheeple)
EPA
Enthusiasts
most of us on car forums are car geeks. We enjoy cars....many people just want transportation that fits their ideal combo of practicality, style, price, performance, economy. Some want status....many of us here value performance more than avg. Even people like me that only drives it hard 1 or 2x per week.
bonus fact: I did the long way home this week...10 miles of two lane twisty roads. There is one corner that is a real hard left 90 deg + corner (acute?) if you look about 200 feet before the turn you have a sight line through the trees and can tell if you can cut into the opposing lane...clear so I blasted through it right onto fresh chip seal!!!.......slid about 4 feet over before it caught. I'm glad I cut into the other lane or I would have been into the field.
for city folk chip sealing is when they coat the road with a thin layer of sticky tar then put pea gravel on top of that. When it's fresh imagine sticky ball bearings.......
Last edited:
I think we call them "tar snakes" in So Cal.
Yea, I won't argue that the best engineering solutions typically give way to politics. Everyone should do their part to promote manuals! Honda is: https://youtu.be/gzyKM1RS1Xg
Yea, I won't argue that the best engineering solutions typically give way to politics. Everyone should do their part to promote manuals! Honda is: https://youtu.be/gzyKM1RS1Xg
Last edited:
Jumpy
Go Kart Newbie
- Location
- Austin, TX, USA
- Car(s)
- '18 GTI Autobahn
I like that Atlantic Blue, but I'd still choose DIB over it.
The same fate will happen with the GTI. Sooner than people realize. They don't seem to be too thrilled with the 7 speed dual clutch either. Bad days ahead.
Keep in mind, too, that car companies think some years ahead (or they should). If you're running R&D for a car company today, how much effort do you want to put into continuing to develop, improve, certify, integrate, etc. a technology that is largely going to be irrelevant to everything else you are doing? Manual transmissions, being pretty much solely and directly connected to ICE development, are probably _not_ part of the future, because ICE cars are, eventually, going away. Not today, not tomorrow, but the day is visible from the higher mountain tops. And the R&D types are not scrambling to process the lessons of the first couple of generations of modern electric cars, and putting more and more money into all the things that go with them. I do not know for certain, of course--they don't call me up and give me their road maps--but I'm guessing that any engineer who asks for a budget to continue to develop and improve manual transmissions for ICE cars is going to have a very hard time getting any money from corporate.
My guess, too, is that in the next ten years, you'll see the existing manual transmissions lag behind in terms of development; they won't keep pace with the rest of the car, and eventually even enthusiasts who worship at the Church of the Third Pedal will have to admit that they better find a new faith community.
My guess, too, is that in the next ten years, you'll see the existing manual transmissions lag behind in terms of development; they won't keep pace with the rest of the car, and eventually even enthusiasts who worship at the Church of the Third Pedal will have to admit that they better find a new faith community.
I don't think so. In the USA at least, GTI is still marketed as an enthusiast car. No manual in VWs iconic enthusiast car? Especially when they offer plenty in Europe? They can afford the drivetrain certification losses.
As to Audi, good to know. Guess I'll never buy an Audi product in the USA. Shame too, the RS3 is supposed to be a monster.
My bigger bother with VW is the current CEO of VWAG apparently wants all VWs to be electric in a few years. I guess the younger generations will be happy with electrics. I won't buy one, ever, period, nor will many monied Americans. It's a funny thing btw, those young generations. They're mostly broke, living in their parent's basements.
I also think all the hand waving about the electric car "revolution" is fantasy of the left progressives. Electric cars will have a place, but Americans want their piston engines. Sure, the lunatic government can try to overtly or indirectly ban them, but given an honest choice, lots, probably most, Americans will be loving ICEs for many years to come. And unless you want to change the Constitution of the US, existing ICE vehicles will be on our roads for many years to come.
Last edited:
You make some fair points, but to your argument, there isn't much development involved or needed with manual transmissions. They are a mature technology, that works well. 7 speed manuals exist, and work great. The only "development" would be in creating new boxes for new engines, but that's just a design task, not an R&D task.
There's nothing to admit. It's not a religion, it's a recognition and a philosophy - let drivers be in control, or let a computer programmer drive your car for you? Freedom or servitude? Give buyers a choice of how best to propel their wheels, or force them to take on the burden of a more expensive, less reliable contraption attached to their cars?
Last edited:
I saw that as well. The article makes it clear, this is an engineering mule for Mk8. That's an Audi shifter.
Also look at whatever's in the cupholders, as well as the cobbled-up instrument panel with some virtual cockpit screen that's just stuck on there and the infotainment screen area, which is where they stuck the climate control buttons inside a makeshift screwed-on frame.
Also look at whatever's in the cupholders, as well as the cobbled-up instrument panel with some virtual cockpit screen that's just stuck on there and the infotainment screen area, which is where they stuck the climate control buttons inside a makeshift screwed-on frame.
And the odd (non-GTI) steering wheel too.