Advice on Tire Choices for Daily and Autocross

Hi all,

Sorry to bring up another tire thread, I know there are a ton (read through a lot of them), but couldn't seem to find the answer I was looking for. Here is my current situation:

Just got a new 2017 GTI SE (so has PP). I have been able to convince the wife to let me get another set of wheels for the car for summer/autocross use and keep my current Austins with all-seasons for winter.. My ideal situation would be to have a winter set, summer set, and autocross set, but no luck with that.

I haven't decided yet whether or not to stay in GS, or just go with the APR Stage 1 tune and wider tires and have a bit of fun at autocross but not try to be competitive (I'm leaning more towards the tune option). If I do, then I'll most likely go with an 18x8 or 18x8.5 wheel with a 235/40 or 245/35 (?) tire.

The main area I'm having trouble with is tire selection. I ran PSS on my M4 and they did not do well with autocross, the shoulders were way too soft and chunks were coming out after a few events. They were great for the street though, and we get some intense rain storms in Indiana and they handled water just fine.

I'm trying to find a good street tire with a stiffer sidewall that will see a handful of autocross events during the year (maybe 8 events/60-80 runs). I would like to keep these wheels/tires on spring through fall (not just at the track), so they need to handle rain and get somewhat decent mileage on them (10-15k).

I've seen some people on the F80 bimmerpost forums getting 15-20k on the RE-71Rs, but they weren't tracking them. Also, not quite sure how these would handle heavy rain. They're a bit on the expensive side, but still manageable. I tried to find some info on the Falken Azenis and Kumho Ecsta, but haven't had much luck. Price looks great, just not sure about performance/autocross use and wear. Or should I drop down to the Max Performance Summer category since it's not a dedicated autocross set?

The Sumitomo HTR Z III tires have great reviews and are cheap, saw someone else mention them in these forums. I sorted them by autocross reviews on tire rack and still had good reviews. Again, with my PSS experience, I really want to try to find a tire that will handle autocross a bit better and not roll so easy with a soft wall, while still being able to daily. Maybe I'm looking for a tire that doesn't exist and have to just settle, would appreciate any feedback. Thanks!

I am slightly unclear about the need. Are you asking for tires that can handle 80 runs and also 15k on the road or are you going to run a set autocross/track wheels and a normal summer tire set?

FYI RE71Rs are very capable wet tires. But really bad standing water is not that great with them. I'd say when you start seeing deep puddles something like PSS(or PS4S, which are coming out for normal sizes this year) or DW(or ECS) will be better. But if you are planning to run 80 runs a season I think the wear(especially on a car like GTI) will make them slightly sketchy to daily towards the latter part of the tire life. FWIW if you are careful anyway and drive suiting to the condition you are going to be ok eitherway.

I don't daily my autocross tires, at least I haven't been since probably 2014. Main reason being that helps me prolong the use of the autocross set longer since I can basically run them until they are corded as I don't have to worry about DDing on them.

Also FYI, this year for SCCA rules there will be a class where you can run APR tune(STH). Basically the same rule set as what STX was but tunes with more boost are allowed(downpipes with cat and intake are allowed, stock turbo, no clutch upgrade). 9" wide wheel limit and I think 265mm is the limit on tire width. And you can run coilovers and camber plate(or adjustable lower control arms, just not both). With stock camber even with Bridgestones unless you are flipping tires very often(I flip ever 2-3 events) your tire wear will still be not very good.

I've heard good things about Dunlop Direzza Star Spec, but I'm not sure you'd want to drive on them for 3 seasons, if they're anything like the previous version. I had a set of those, and the noise level was appalling after a few thousand miles.

Also to note, RE71Rs are TERRIBLE as far as road manners go. Loud and rides poorly.

RacingManiac said:

Also to note, RE71Rs are TERRIBLE as far as road manners go. Loud and rides poorly.

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Universal Truth: The better something is on the track, the harder it is to live with on the road.

RacingManiac said:

Are you asking for tires that can handle 80 runs and also 15k?

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Yeah, thats pretty much what I was asking. Sound unrealistic? I've gotten about 15k on my PSS and did 5 events (probably 35 runs total). The wear was fine, plenty of life left, just the shoulders got really bad from rolling with chunks coming out.

RacingManiac said:

Also FYI, this year for SCCA rules there will be a class where you can run APR tune(STH). Basically the same rule set as what STX was but tunes with more boost are allowed(downpipes with cat and intake are allowed, stock turbo, no clutch upgrade). 9" wide wheel limit and I think 265mm is the limit on tire width. And you can run coilovers and camber plate(or adjustable lower control arms, just not both). With stock camber even with Bridgestones unless you are flipping tires very often(I flip ever 2-3 events) your tire wear will still be not very good.

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Thanks for the info, I had heard about the new class and know my local SCCA club mentioned it on their facebook, haven't had the time to look into it though. That sounds exactly like what I would be in with a stage 1 tune, 8/8.5 wheels, and possible intake. They still don't allow you to run lowering springs huh? I hate wheel gap and was wanting a small drop (DG springs), but looks like those would push me out of STH as well?

Coilovers are allowed so you can run whatever rideheight/spring rate you want.

I think you will have better luck with tire life with STH bits because the tire won't wear as unevenly as stock setup goes on autoX use. I think 15k and 80 runs is not unrealistic. Just by the end of that they will probably be very poor road tires.

Not sure how much these are available but I had a summer set of Bridgestone RE-11's and loved them for daily drive and in heavy rain. I have never tracked but many like due to longer wear on track days. I found them a solid tire.

RE-71, a better track tire but carry a warning for standing get water. Should be track only use.

I'm also leaning towards one tire for dd and ax. I expect to do 20 events this year with 4-8 runs per event, so think ax will be most of their wear. Friends are suggesting Hankook RS4 as a better mannered tire (compared to RE71). Most agree re71r > rs4 for performance.

Tirerack is fire selling yoko ad08r in some sizes but I was told it was early 2015 stock. Other sizes may be even older.

OP my experience with htr z3 is: inferior to Conti DW and PSS. Better than all seasons but not great. They last and are cheap but they get noisy over time and sidewall is on the softer side.

I was in the same situation as you last year. I ended up buying Michelin PSS for daily / autox use. After a few events it was clear that the PSS are capable, but just can't hold a candle to the true 200 treadwear tires. I ended up splurging and getting a 2nd set of wheels and RE-71R tires. THe RE-71R are 1.5 seconds faster around a typical local course. They're extremely noisy to daily (think of a jeep with offroad mud tires on it, that kind of whine), but actually feel the same in ride quality.

Overall: If you want to be competitive, don't get anything less than a true 200 treadwear tire. If you just want a fun daily and something that will be competent in autocross (but not the top), then the PSS are very hard to beat.

Have to agree with the post above, if you're going to be doing a lot of autocross then stick to 200tw tires. Not just for being competitive, but the added fun factor they bring as well.

If you want a cheaper tire that does well, the Falken's are great. I found them comfortable to DD and extremely easy to push hard on the track. You won't be disappointed with the level of grip they offer. This is based off my experience with the old compound, supposedly the newer compound is even better.

I've been really happy with my Firestone Indy 500's for dual purpose. Much quieter than hankook R-S3's were, and my times are nearly the same.

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I'm leaning more and more towards sticking with GS for autocross. The wheel choices seem to suck at the 18x7.5 specs, and since I'm going to be using these for daily driving as well, looks matter. To keep things stock, I think I'm going to buy a set of Nogaro wheels. Won't have any weight saving over the Austins, but at least they're not worse, and look much better.

odessa.filez said:

OP my experience with htr z3 is: inferior to Conti DW and PSS. Better than all seasons but not great. They last and are cheap but they get noisy over time and sidewall is on the softer side.

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Thanks for the info, I'll take a look at the RS4s

bfury5 said:

Overall: If you want to be competitive, don't get anything less than a true 200 treadwear tire. If you just want a fun daily and something that will be competent in autocross (but not the top), then the PSS are very hard to beat.

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Thanks! Unfortunately I can only have two sets of wheels and one of them needs to handle snow. While I would love RE-71R's, the more I read about them, the more it sounds like they would annoy me when not tracking.

Maybe since the GTI is lighter than my M4 I'll have less rolling with the sidewalls on the PSS, might give them a shot again since I loved them for street use.

Unreal1 said:

If you want a cheaper tire that does well, the Falken's are great. I found them comfortable to DD and extremely easy to push hard on the track. You won't be disappointed with the level of grip they offer. This is based off my experience with the old compound, supposedly the newer compound is even better.

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Awesome, thanks for the feedback. The price/performance for the Falkens seem like they may be the winner for my situation. What type of track use have you had with them? Autocross or actual tracks? How were the sidewalls? Any roll?

SlowJim said:

I've been really happy with my Firestone Indy 500's for dual purpose. Much quieter than hankook R-S3's were, and my times are nearly the same.

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Can't seem to find those on Tirerack in the sizes I need, any other place to order? Thanks for the feedback!

EDIT: never mind, when I search by brand I can find them. Great price too. Going to look into these, thanks!

Halewafa said:

Awesome, thanks for the feedback. The price/performance for the Falkens seem like they may be the winner for my situation. What type of track use have you had with them? Autocross or actual tracks? How were the sidewalls? Any roll?

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Actual track along with a separate slalom course. The sidewalls on these are very good, they're stiff.

Here's a review I read before I made my purchase:

http://www.turnology.com/tech-stori...s-rt615k-tire-through-its-paces-at-the-track/

That's based on the older compound as well.

Halewafa said:

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I'm leaning more and more towards sticking with GS for autocross. The wheel choices seem to suck at the 18x7.5 specs, and since I'm going to be using these for daily driving as well, looks matter. To keep things stock, I think I'm going to buy a set of Nogaro wheels. Won't have any weight saving over the Austins, but at least they're not worse, and look much better.

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If you want to stay stock, I run the VW Rotary wheels and I personally think they're some of the best looking OEM wheels VW offers. I'm not sure how much they weigh, but my PSS + Rotary setup is 43.6lb per corner (rim+wheel). For comparison, my 17"x7.5 Sparco Assetta Garo Wheels + RE-71R are 41.6lb a corner, and my 16" steelies + snow tires are 48lb even.