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Looking for some basic suspension info/help

plastermaster

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Gualala
Hi All,
First post here, and not sure I am on the best forum for the question, or if I should be on the wheels/tires/brakes/suspension forum..

I have been doing some searches to improve some handling issues with my new Golf and pretty much all results come back for GTIs.

Anyways, I just bought a new 2018 golf to replace my old prius that finally used up its hybrid battery. Pretty much all my driving is on the twisty HWI up the coast north of the CA bay area (for those familiar) Great road to drive. I used to have a 73 Karmann Ghia that I did extensive engine work on and minor suspension upgrades. I figured the Golf being much newer technology would handle even better, but I guess you can't beat gravity. The car weighs an extra 1000 lbs and feels it.

I'm not looking to auto cross or even drive it all that hard, but at the same time, I would like more ease in the corners. Currently I am sensing a good bit more body roll than I would like, to the point that I had to pull over to get out of the way of a Ford Cmax, (but maybe the guy was crazy LOL). It actually doesn't feel like the car is leaning as much as just shifting laterally, and also there is a delayed feeling between turning and the sense of lateral shift, both entering into turns and coming out again.

Possible useful info: Everything is stock. I'm probably not a skilled driver for taking the turns hard. I am not pushing to the point of any traction loss. I have the tires inflated to 40 PSI as came from the dealer. Tires are Hankook 205/55/16, basic all season radial, (don't remember the specific Hankook).

I had good luck with adding swaybars to my Ghia, but I was able to increase both the front and the rear. I am not really set up to tackle replacing the front swaybars, so I am not sure about beefing up the rears and upsetting the balance. Any ideas on that would be appreciated. Perhaps with the stability control it wouldn't matter if I stiffened up the rear a good bit?

If I were to go after some suspension mods that I am not set up to do myself, is it possible to just have the dealer swap out for GTI suspension? I also don't want to screw with my 6 year warranty so not sure what I can get away with, which is another reason I might want to turn to the dealer.

I know there is a lot of info if I look for it but like I said earlier it seems search results all point to working on GTIs and I am not sure how much overlap there is with the standard Golf.

I'm not really looking to have the best g rating or slalom times, but rather just more ease through the turns, without feeling thrown around as much.

Sorry for the long winded post, but I wanted to provide enough general information.

Kinda wish now I had gotten a GTI instead! I did test drive one but wasn't able to really get to know it or the golf on the roads I drive. I opted for the golf based on it being quieter, and more economical. Seemed to handle pretty well on the test drive.

Thanks for any ideas!
 

RacingManiac

Drag Race Newbie
Location
MI
Better tires will help, with caveat that it will likely degrade some MPG and possibly more road noise(Pilot A/S 3 or Conti DWSs probably will be ok though). Other things to look at, maybe uprated dampers(B6 Bilstein, Koni FSD or something, not super "sports" oriented but are a bit more focus on body control). Maybe swap to GTI rear sway bar?
 

R Golf

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lenox, MA
Judging from your driving history and driving style I would do nothing with the stock suspension. You are years away from out-driving a stock R suspension with good tires. RacingManiac's response of better tires is spot on. Nothing will help more than great tires. I'd recommend Michelin PS4's, but TireRack has great reviews and details to let you select what fits your driving style. See how the car feels on great tires before doing anything.

If you are interested in doing so, a couple of track days will add way more joy to your driving than any suspension mods. As you progress you will reach a point where you will know exactly what you want to dial in the suspension according to your needs. Tires and track time, IMHO are the best $$ you can spend.
 

fretburnr

Ready to race!
Location
Chicago, IL
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
Better tires for sure. Also, I find that (especially on low-grip stock tires) the ESC cuts in very early, making the car feel extremely understeer-prone. With ESC in sport or disabled, the chassis is much more agile.
 

R Golf

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lenox, MA
Better tires for sure. Also, I find that (especially on low-grip stock tires) the ESC cuts in very early, making the car feel extremely understeer-prone. With ESC in sport or disabled, the chassis is much more agile.

+1 Very good point. The car is undriveable on the track with ESC fully enabled. Set on limited (one push, not holding to shut it off) makes a HUGE difference and is a great setting for the street and track while maintaining a level of insurance.
 

plastermaster

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Gualala
Thanks for the replies! For some reason I didn't get email notification on this thread though it was marked as "subscribed".

Good points about the tires. On my Ghia, I upgraded the suspension with stronger sway bars, bushings, and shocks, and after all that I fitted with Bridgestone RE 950's and that made more difference than the suspension mods. And the RE 950 was nothing more than a performance all season tire. Tire rack surveys gave gave it very high handling ratings though.

@ R Golf, I agree that I am far from outdriving the stock R suspension, but, I don't have an R. I have the standard Golf. An R would be nice though :)

@ Fretburnr, Does the standard SE Golf have adjustable stability control? I have not been able to find a setting for it. I don't have any working buttons to the left of the shifter, just blanks.

I don't think I am pushing the car to where ESC comes to play, but maybe that could be part of what causes the car to feel a little wonky sometimes with that delayed body response entering and leaving a turn.

Just so I'm clear on the tire upgrade,,,,better tires can somehow make the car feel like it stays put over the wheels better? Less lean/lateral movement? When parked, if I push the car sideways back and forth, it seems to move on the suspension, but I am not seeing any deflection in the sidewalls. I doubt I am moving the car as much as in cornering though. With better tires, how much tighter of a feel would I have by going to 17"rims and a 45 tire? Or is it more about tread and material contacting the road. By the time I replaced rims and tires I could probably trade in for a GTI :)
 

George Ab

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Pacific NW
A stiffer rear sway bar is a cheap an easy mod that helps with body roll. That is where I started, ST suspension 51310 is fine. See how that goes. The next step would be stiffer struts particularly in the back as ours are a bit bouncy in the rear; Koni yellows or Bilsteins, might as well put some VWR springs in while you are there, lower CG and still comfortable. That is a nice set up.

Not sure of the size of the golf rear stabilizer compared to the GTI. You may look into that as someone would likely give you their rear GTI stabilizer for shipping cost. I finally threw mine away. However $160 for stabilizer shipped is not a bad place to start.
 
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RacingManiac

Drag Race Newbie
Location
MI
I think its possible that you don't have a ESC button which means you can't turn the system off or switch to different mode. I think VW don't put them in base trim Golf anymore(at least they didn't for a while for MK6).

Tires will definitely help. On my car going from my normal summer tires to winter tires the car feels completely different because they have much softer sidewall and lateral compliance that the car will feel like its moving on top of the tires as opposed to with the tires...
 

fretburnr

Ready to race!
Location
Chicago, IL
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
@ Fretburnr, Does the standard SE Golf have adjustable stability control? I have not been able to find a setting for it. I don't have any working buttons to the left of the shifter, just blanks.

I think you should be able to do it from the infotainment screen menus. However, the button makes it more convenient by far.

The ABS module that controls the stability programming is the same for all Golfs (incl. GTI) that have a manual handbrake. It looks like VW omitted the button on the standard cars, but they can be added. DIY link below with tons of thorough information, thanks to golfdave.

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7908
 

plastermaster

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Gualala
I think you should be able to do it from the infotainment screen menus. However, the button makes it more convenient by far.

The ABS module that controls the stability programming is the same for all Golfs (incl. GTI) that have a manual handbrake. It looks like VW omitted the button on the standard cars, but they can be added. DIY link below with tons of thorough information, thanks to golfdave.

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7908

Thanks! Great post from Golfdave.

BTY I was wrong on my above post. If I push my car side to side, it seems pretty much all the movement is from the sidewalls flexing. So as recommended by most of the above, I should look at some stiffer tires. The standard golf has some of the best reviews in handling of its class in the car mags. You think VW would embrace that and give it some better tires. THere are definitely better tires that don't sacrifice a smooth ride.
 

RacingManiac

Drag Race Newbie
Location
MI
Thanks! Great post from Golfdave.

BTY I was wrong on my above post. If I push my car side to side, it seems pretty much all the movement is from the sidewalls flexing. So as recommended by most of the above, I should look at some stiffer tires. The standard golf has some of the best reviews in handling of its class in the car mags. You think VW would embrace that and give it some better tires. THere are definitely better tires that don't sacrifice a smooth ride.

Fuel economy get impacted pretty directly from grippier tires. Between the stock all seasons on my GTI vs my daily Continental ECS I dropped probably 2 MPG on long trips.
 

Mini7

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Judging from your driving history and driving style I would do nothing with the stock suspension. You are years away from out-driving a stock R suspension with good tires. RacingManiac's response of better tires is spot on. Nothing will help more than great tires. I'd recommend Michelin PS4's, but TireRack has great reviews and details to let you select what fits your driving style. See how the car feels on great tires before doing anything.

If you are interested in doing so, a couple of track days will add way more joy to your driving than any suspension mods. As you progress you will reach a point where you will know exactly what you want to dial in the suspension according to your needs. Tires and track time, IMHO are the best $$ you can spend.

+1

Seat time and better tires all the way.

Even though our GTi’s have body roll. They generate a surprising amount of grip. I’m less concerned about the roll our cars have on track and would prefer better front end bite. Stick with the stock suspension until you progress to pushing its limits. Better to do this on a track.
 

plastermaster

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Gualala
I agree some driving practice and perhaps instruction would be helpful. In my driving I don;t think I am anywhere near loosing grip, and for me it is the body roll that I find annoying, and as I said, I am comparing to lighter weight cars that I have had b4. I have noticed that when cornering, I often don't stay centered or to the inside of my lane as accurately as I could. Having to make a correction in the middle of the turn definitely detracts from the sense of a controlled ride. It did seem easier in other cars, but that was a long time ago. I feel my aging reflexes are getting rusty. :)
 
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