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Whose Stage II, then?

MiamiBourne

Go Kart Champion
Location
South Florida
Car(s)
2016 6MT Golf R Oryx

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
The price is in the guarantee I guess. Lol

MAP doesn't guarantee anything despite using a GESI cat. Not saying it will throw a CEL, I just don't know anyone that's proven that it doesn't...yet.

I mainly went for AWE since I have their SwitchPath exhaust.

If you have the money just get the AWE.


MAP has reviews on their pipes of having no CEL's with the gesi ones on their gti pipe reviews. I don't believe anyone on this forum tho has used it or reviewed it on here so we don't have much feedback. APR uses same cat and doesn't offer the guarantee as well.

AWE can charge whatever they want for their product and people will blindly pay for it (Their DP is same as APR plus, they want the overhead encase they do replace anything). IMO their products are all priced 30% above what they should be, at their current prices they aren't even competitive in the marketplace.


ALSO don't forget the MAP pipe is a 3>2.5 reducer so you need to cut that off to mate to a 3" catback as their pipe is designed to fit the OEM system at this point in time. That being said they do have a stellar reputation in the respective communities they service.

AWE's dp is the only one that I can think of that uses the HJS euro cat that's widely available. I think Emmanuel might sell the BullX dp with that option.

Keep in mind the CEL free warranty is one year only, but I don't think it will be a problem

AMS uses the GESI option in their UHO size and I haven't heard of anyone mention a CEL, despite the cat's location further downstream (like APR). APR and another Canadian company's (who's name I can't seem to remember because I'm an old fart) uses the GESI HO size and both will trigger the CEL eventually.

MAP uses the HO size (you can request to change to the UHO size for $50 more) but I haven't seen any reports of CEL issues with it, probably because it sits in the stock location.

I ordered the MAP dp with GESI and resonator during the Black Friday sale, but as was noted, it's gonna take ~6 weeks to fabricate.


GESI is 300 cell & HJS is 400 cell IIRC, that could be the difference maker plus american vs European company.
 

tortoise

Ready to race!
Location
MA
AWE can charge whatever they want for their product and people will blindly pay for it (Their DP is same as APR plus, they want the overhead encase they do replace anything). IMO their products are all priced 30% above what they should be, at their current prices they aren't even competitive in the marketplace.

I don't know if they're "blindly" paying. Not all of them, anyway.

Take me, for example.

After some reading, I can see I was too hard on APR. They've got excellent reasons for placing the cat where they do (reduce engine bay temps under higher load). It makes no sense to put a super-premium HJS where they've situated their perfectly ok GESI cat: It would probably pull a CEL either way, so why tack on the needless expense.

Furthermore, if it matters, the APR tubing appears to be slightly thicker than AWE's (or anyone else's, for that matter). Might have a slightly more pleasing sound. I dunno.

Unfortunately, though, the People's Democratic Commonwealth of Massachusetts is what it is. So then here's the question:

What's it worth for me, with all else going on in my life, not to have to give annual inspection a moment's thought?

$10,000? [Snort] No.

$5,000? [Eyeroll] No.

$1,000? [Rubs forehead] I'll just get a Prius.

$500? [Pause] Ok, maybe. God, I'm so over this state.

There you go: That just happens to be the difference in price between APR and AWE.

Clearly, those folks know what they're doing. They may not be competitive in your marketplace but, regretfully, all things considered, they are in mine.

Bottom line: I'll be entering this transaction with my eyes wide open.
 
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jonnyg

Ready to race!
Location
New York
Car(s)
2016 Golf R
MAP has reviews on their pipes of having no CEL's with the gesi ones on their gti pipe reviews. I don't believe anyone on this forum tho has used it or reviewed it on here so we don't have much feedback. APR uses same cat and doesn't offer the guarantee as well.

AWE can charge whatever they want for their product and people will blindly pay for it (Their DP is same as APR plus, they want the overhead encase they do replace anything). IMO their products are all priced 30% above what they should be, at their current prices they aren't even competitive in the marketplace.


ALSO don't forget the MAP pipe is a 3>2.5 reducer so you need to cut that off to mate to a 3" catback as their pipe is designed to fit the OEM system at this point in time. That being said they do have a stellar reputation in the respective communities they service.




GESI is 300 cell & HJS is 400 cell IIRC, that could be the difference maker plus american vs European company.

The AWE is 200 Cell High Flow EURO 6 compliant HJS Catalyst. I bought mine used, I can probably sell it now for more than i paid for it.

that being said, inspectors are supposed to visual inspect the emissions system, so even without CEL could still fail the visual, but unlikely in most places. Though I read a thread about state implementation of crazy camera systems in MA inspection bays, might want to look into it OP....
 

tortoise

Ready to race!
Location
MA
The AWE is 200 Cell High Flow EURO 6 compliant HJS Catalyst. I bought mine used, I can probably sell it now for more than i paid for it.

that being said, inspectors are supposed to visual inspect the emissions system, so even without CEL could still fail the visual, but unlikely in most places. Though I read a thread about state implementation of crazy camera systems in MA inspection bays, might want to look into it OP....

Yeah, I have. It's not a problem...yet.

As it is now, the cameras (five HD units connected to some Big Brother monitoring central location) are there to make sure inspectors don't overlook raised or lowered suspensions (1" modification in either direction is all that's allowed, I believe), tint over 35%, or, in general, sweetheart a sticker to someone. I've heard no reports of someone failing an inspection due to a visual check of the emissions systems: That said, I certainly won't take this to a VW specialist.
 

Martin398

Ready to race!
Location
MA
Mass does in fact video record (and monitor) inspections. that being said, a hi flow cat will pass (or at least can, because mine has two years now) visual inspection. I have a CTS catted DP with a 42DD spacer and have not had to remove to pass the OBD readiness tests.
 

mattkosem1

Ready to race!
Location
OH, US
AWE's dp is the only one that I can think of that uses the HJS euro cat that's widely available. I think Emmanuel might sell the BullX dp with that option.

Keep in mind the CEL free warranty is one year only, but I don't think it will be a problem

AMS uses the GESI option in their UHO size and I haven't heard of anyone mention a CEL, despite the cat's location further downstream (like APR). APR and another Canadian company's (who's name I can't seem to remember because I'm an old fart) uses the GESI HO size and both will trigger the CEL eventually.

MAP uses the HO size (you can request to change to the UHO size for $50 more) but I haven't seen any reports of CEL issues with it, probably because it sits in the stock location.

I ordered the MAP dp with GESI and resonator during the Black Friday sale, but as was noted, it's gonna take ~6 weeks to fabricate.


I believe Milltek is available with the Euro6 HJS option as well.

Out of curiosity. Does the IE pipe throw a CEL? I see evidence suggesting that the placement is important in avoiding it, but is that all it takes?

--Matt
 

Hoon

Autocross Champion
Location
Rhode Island
I have no idea what you mean, but as you're from Rhode Island I'll guess you know what you're talking about here so...um, sure, ok!

Typically the only people so fed up with MA bullshit that they actually flee the state are gun guys and small business owners.

I'd be interested to know where you got the information for the secondary o2 sensor being used specifically for fueling calculations? This would be the first vehicle I've ever toyed with that used the downstream o2 sensor for anything other than what I have mentioned.


Unless VW has done something new with the MK7, the primary (upstream) o2 sensor is the lambda sensor, meaning it's a 5-wire wideband sensor. The secondary (downstream) o2 sensor is a 4-wire o2 sensor. It cannot provide feedback to the ECM beyond catalytic converter efficiency thresholds.

Basically, the rear o2 sniffs the mixture and says to replace the catalytic converter because it's not reducing emissions effectively, triggering the MIL. This is why we remove it from the stream. Not really a hack job, if you're running a catless exhaust.

This info is a from a very reputable tuner with a lot of experience on VWs. He did say that secondary O2 use for fueling is specific to the MK7 and on previous generations of Golfs the secondary O2 sensor was the same as it is on most cars (just a butt sniffer).
 

WHY_GTI1

Ready to race!
Location
91775
Yeah, I have. It's not a problem...yet.

As it is now, the cameras (five HD units connected to some Big Brother monitoring central location) are there to make sure inspectors don't overlook raised or lowered suspensions (1" modification in either direction is all that's allowed, I believe), tint over 35%, or, in general, sweetheart a sticker to someone. I've heard no reports of someone failing an inspection due to a visual check of the emissions systems: That said, I certainly won't take this to a VW specialist.

They will do a visual when you take your car in for a smog check. If they see the aftermarket downpipe, you will fail the test.
 

tortoise

Ready to race!
Location
MA
Mass does in fact video record (and monitor) inspections. that being said, a hi flow cat will pass (or at least can, because mine has two years now) visual inspection. I have a CTS catted DP with a 42DD spacer and have not had to remove to pass the OBD readiness tests.

Massachusetts is absurd. If it weren’t such a great place to raise kids, I’d be gone.
 

Cliff p.

Drag Racing Champion
Location
El Paso, TX
Car(s)
'17 Golf R DSG
This info is a from a very reputable tuner with a lot of experience on VWs. He did say that secondary O2 use for fueling is specific to the MK7 and on previous generations of Golfs the secondary O2 sensor was the same as it is on most cars (just a butt sniffer).


Interesting. I think I'm going to make a new thread for the sake of my learning (and not cluttering this one up)
 

d1ngleberry

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
PDX
I just got word that my MAP downpipe has shipped (GESI). Hopefully I'll be able to install it in the next few weeks. I'll be sure to give an update regarding any CELs once it's in.
 
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