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0-60 in a manual

MiamiBourne

Go Kart Champion
Location
South Florida
Car(s)
2016 6MT Golf R Oryx
Launch Control and no-lift shift should even the playing field :D

Yep, I know Cobb has released there LC/NLS a few months ago for the 6MT and just recently United Motorsport released it. Here is a video from one of the guys on YouTube I follow showing it in action. He's set to release a more detailed video about the features soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVj7qgx3kfg
 

RudyH

Go Kart Champion
Location
Kitchener, ON
This is something I have always been curious about.

Yes it goes back to DSG vs 6MT, but seriously...

If you launch DSG normally, it runs a 0-60 which is about 0-0.1 second faster then the 6MT. It's not until you use LC that you see the benefit of a DSG launch.

That thought in mind, is the XDS helping us in our launches? Or sandbagging it? Just a simple summary, XDS will act like a limited slip, however instead of spinning a tire faster etc, it will apply appropriate braking.

I have tried turning off 'all' traction control systems but I am pretty sure XDS is not part of shutting off everything.

I'm sure Cobb and UM won't tell us what their secret sauce is, but I am very curious on this. Launching at 4,000 RPM isn't a big thing, and it's a matter of learning to slip the clutch, no doubt about it...but there is something electronically that is sand bagging the 6MT, and I have this *hunch*.

It would be tough to do a *like for like* but I believe the MK6 R didn't have XDS, but it was down on power + different chassis + weight etc...same transmission. I feel like a clue would be there though
 

MiamiBourne

Go Kart Champion
Location
South Florida
Car(s)
2016 6MT Golf R Oryx
This is something I have always been curious about.

Yes it goes back to DSG vs 6MT, but seriously...

If you launch DSG normally, it runs a 0-60 which is about 0-0.1 second faster then the 6MT. It's not until you use LC that you see the benefit of a DSG launch.

That thought in mind, is the XDS helping us in our launches? Or sandbagging it? Just a simple summary, XDS will act like a limited slip, however instead of spinning a tire faster etc, it will apply appropriate braking.

I have tried turning off 'all' traction control systems but I am pretty sure XDS is not part of shutting off everything.

I'm sure Cobb and UM won't tell us what their secret sauce is, but I am very curious on this. Launching at 4,000 RPM isn't a big thing, and it's a matter of learning to slip the clutch, no doubt about it...but there is something electronically that is sand bagging the 6MT, and I have this *hunch*.

It would be tough to do a *like for like* but I believe the MK6 R didn't have XDS, but it was down on power + different chassis + weight etc...same transmission. I feel like a clue would be there though

One thing I do know is that with UM, they are allowing you to build boost at launch.

Also since you still have to release or slip the clutch I'm sure with the manual, there is still some trial and error involved to perfect the launch.
 

RudyH

Go Kart Champion
Location
Kitchener, ON
One thing I do know is that with UM, they are allowing you to build boost at launch.

Also since you still have to release or slip the clutch I'm sure with the manual, there is still some trial and error involved to perfect the launch.

Ya that part I agree with, and of course we can't do a perfect launch 100% of the time, however if you did a rolling start, the DSG is quite tame and the benefit is gone.

I guess once the warranty is done, and the JB4 is ready to go up for sale, I can speak more about the building of boost at launch, and see how the Haldex tune (coming on earlier) helps...I'm still curious if there is something more to it.
 

KASPER1

Go Kart Champion
Location
AMONGST U
Ya that part I agree with, and of course we can't do a perfect launch 100% of the time, however if you did a rolling start, the DSG is quite tame and the benefit is gone.

I guess once the warranty is done, and the JB4 is ready to go up for sale, I can speak more about the building of boost at launch, and see how the Haldex tune (coming on earlier) helps...I'm still curious if there is something more to it.


There’s still waaaay less boost dump on shifts with a dsg. My big turbo never ducks below 30 psi on the 3-4 shift, for exampl. So I wouldn’t say the benefit is gone, lessened possibly, but you’ll never miss 3rd, or money shift, in the dsg also lol

It’s nice UM gives you guys a proper launch control, and building boost on launch is just awesome, hopefully it works as flawlessly for you manual guys as it does for us dsg guys!
 

JC_451

Autocross Champion
Location
NJ, one of the nice parts.
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
I think 0-60 is also WAY too short of a distance to realize the difference in shift speed and holding boost.

You're only shifting once in a manual to get to 60. If you start climbing up through the gears when you've gotten to fourth you've dropped boost 3 times so I think you'd see more of a difference over greater distance.
 

pnwbrdr

Ready to race!
Location
WA
This is something I have always been curious about.

Yes it goes back to DSG vs 6MT, but seriously...

If you launch DSG normally, it runs a 0-60 which is about 0-0.1 second faster then the 6MT. It's not until you use LC that you see the benefit of a DSG launch.

That thought in mind, is the XDS helping us in our launches? Or sandbagging it? Just a simple summary, XDS will act like a limited slip, however instead of spinning a tire faster etc, it will apply appropriate braking.

I have tried turning off 'all' traction control systems but I am pretty sure XDS is not part of shutting off everything.

I'm sure Cobb and UM won't tell us what their secret sauce is, but I am very curious on this. Launching at 4,000 RPM isn't a big thing, and it's a matter of learning to slip the clutch, no doubt about it...but there is something electronically that is sand bagging the 6MT, and I have this *hunch*.

It would be tough to do a *like for like* but I believe the MK6 R didn't have XDS, but it was down on power + different chassis + weight etc...same transmission. I feel like a clue would be there though
I've been curious about this as well...

Totally different car, but for the Focus RS, which has factory launch control and is manual only, their launch control lifts the torque limits on gears 1 and 2. We all know that the R also has a reduced requested torque in gear 1 and 2, perhaps LC on the DSG raises up these limits, allowing for faster 0-60.
 

TrinivdubOG

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Caribbean
I think 0-60 is also WAY too short of a distance to realize the difference in shift speed and holding boost.

You're only shifting once in a manual to get to 60. If you start climbing up through the gears when you've gotten to fourth you've dropped boost 3 times so I think you'd see more of a difference over greater distance.

No u actually have to shift to 3rd to get 60
 

MiamiBourne

Go Kart Champion
Location
South Florida
Car(s)
2016 6MT Golf R Oryx
There’s still waaaay less boost dump on shifts with a dsg. My big turbo never ducks below 30 psi on the 3-4 shift, for exampl. So I wouldn’t say the benefit is gone, lessened possibly, but you’ll never miss 3rd, or money shift, in the dsg also lol

It’s nice UM gives you guys a proper launch control, and building boost on launch is just awesome, hopefully it works as flawlessly for you manual guys as it does for us dsg guys!

This launch control update also includes no lift shifting so I'm assuming with the manual you shouldn't be losing boost between shifts either. Of course I don't have it yet so I can't confirm but I should know by Saturday.

I just have to track down UM at Waterfest like I did at WITW...wish me luck! These guys are great but scheduling appointments with them at events...well these guys are great. That's all I will say. Lol
 

RudyH

Go Kart Champion
Location
Kitchener, ON
There’s still waaaay less boost dump on shifts with a dsg.
I wouldn't mind you going ahead and proving the significant difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XPxmXjGdyQ

Doesn't seem to affect the results too much...watch every single 1/4 mile run, and after launch no distance between the DSG and 6MT (granted the latter doesn't mis-shift).

IMO, the only concern I have with the 6MT is getting a better launch. There is a sandbag somewhere on the 6MT for the first 2 gears.

I like the feedback so far that's for sure! It will show well on what I replace the JB4 once I'm ready for tunes
 

KASPER1

Go Kart Champion
Location
AMONGST U
I wouldn't mind you going ahead and proving the significant difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XPxmXjGdyQ

Doesn't seem to affect the results too much...watch every single 1/4 mile run, and after launch no distance between the DSG and 6MT (granted the latter doesn't mis-shift).

IMO, the only concern I have with the 6MT is getting a better launch. There is a sandbag somewhere on the 6MT for the first 2 gears.

I like the feedback so far that's for sure! It will show well on what I replace the JB4 once I'm ready for tunes

Ok, quick vid of 3-4 shift dsg, big turbo. And I’m assuming we can all admit the dsg shifts faster even with no-lift shifting, so less time shifting, less boost dump. Maybe UM has a trick for you manual guys, holding boost similar to launch, during the shift but that would be in addition to no-lift. I wouldn’t put it past them, they’re awesome imo

https://youtu.be/Cudaua-60CI
 
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MiamiBourne

Go Kart Champion
Location
South Florida
Car(s)
2016 6MT Golf R Oryx
Ok, quick vid of 3-4 shift dsg, big turbo. And I’m assuming we can all admit the dsg shifts faster even with no-lift shifting, so less time shifting, less boost dump. Maybe UM has a trick for you manual guys, holding boost similar to launch, during the shift but that would be in addition to no-lift. I wouldn’t put it past them, they’re awesome imo

https://youtu.be/Cudaua-60CI

I don't see anyone saying the manual will shift faster with NLS than a DSG so there's no need to admit anything.

However, your comment about waaaaay less boost dumps on shifts...

Joking aside, it's a great option for manual owners and I'm looking forward to getting my LC/NLS tune this Saturday at Waterfest.

I agree the UM guys have some magic going on with their tunes, but NLS (or anti lag) have been around for the MK6 and for other car platforms for a while.
 

Fastlax16

Autocross Newbie
Location
Chitown
Car(s)
2019 DBP R
I wouldn't mind you going ahead and proving the significant difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XPxmXjGdyQ

Doesn't seem to affect the results too much...watch every single 1/4 mile run, and after launch no distance between the DSG and 6MT (granted the latter doesn't mis-shift).

IMO, the only concern I have with the 6MT is getting a better launch. There is a sandbag somewhere on the 6MT for the first 2 gears.

I like the feedback so far that's for sure! It will show well on what I replace the JB4 once I'm ready for tunes



Hey, my old video returns from the dead. The dsg car in that video also made more horsepower than I did. Here are back to back dyno runs from both cars.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

MiamiBourne

Go Kart Champion
Location
South Florida
Car(s)
2016 6MT Golf R Oryx
Practice makes perfect I guess...this is with a JB4 also so he don’t have LC/NLS.

 

warpspeedr

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Tampa
Thanks to those who posted timeslips for their Golf R manuals. The Stage 1 tuned R's were impressive. Now what I'd like to see are some Stage 2 manual timeslips. Since my post last year, I upgraded to APR Stage 2 with a SB Stage 3 clutch (I already had the intake and FMIC). I am guessing that low to mid 12's can be done with this setup. Only a couple times for Stage 2 manuals are posted on the various rosters and only one has beaten the Stage 1 times posted on this thread.
 
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