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Old 11-09-2017, 06:06 AM   #885
takemorepills
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RE remote start, I have worked in the auto industry a LONG time. Not anymore, but I used to be an ASE tech many years ago.

Here's what I have generally observed:

The people concerned about the most minutiae of perceived wear or damage to their prized possession (their car) are the ones spending BIG bucks to detail it, baby it and/or use synthetic oils (or use only a certain gas station) are usually the ones who end up with a wrecked car sooner than later. Seriously, I swear the guys obsessing about their cars seem to wreck them at a higher rate.

I have seen SO many cars just flat-out neglected for hundreds of thousands of miles that run fine. Civics with valve covers fully packed with sludge that the valvetrain has carved out spaces for itself, 300K mile Toyotas owned by people who rarely change their oil and didn't even realize that cars need regular service.

With modern tech in cars pretty much driving consumer car buying trends now, for example, your infotainment is so outdated you *NEED* (want) to buy the newest car to get upgraded tech, why would anyone care if a remote-start reduces the life of a vehicle by some fractional amount?

Honda is including remote start on MOST of their cars/trims nowadays. My co-workers mid-level non-leather 2016 Civic has remote start.

I've used remote start on my truck for 10 years without issues. It can even start the vehicle to maintain the battery.

At this point, in owning my Mk7 GTI, the prospect of one of my LP headlights ($1200) or my sunroof seal ($1500) failing out-of-warranty is a much more REAL issue than some slight engine wear in my mind. All kinds of stuff is going to make you want to get rid of your Mk7 LONG before the engine goes bad 1 week earlier/500 miles sooner than it would have without remote start. You know, when the car is technically "ancient" and all of the "cool" doo-dads have all stopped working.....
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:17 AM   #886
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Asian cars are completely different from European cars. You should know that as a former ASE tech. Asian cars are built to withstand some pretty terrible situations because the manufacturers know that people who buy these cars don't give a shit about them. Try treating a Euro car like that and it will die on you. The tolerances are extremely tight with Euro cars, and extremely loose with Asian cars. This is why many Asian vehicles need a valve adjustment every 60k.

Edit: Cars are very much like computers in this day an age. Just cause you knew windows 2000 doesn't mean you understand windows 10. Not trying to be insulting. I work with people twice my age and the stuff they can't understand is eye opening. If you treat a 2017 GTI like a 98 Civic you are going to have a bad time. I say this as some one who has worked in the construction, computer / cellphone repair / sale, and finally Automotive industries. Car computers may be 10 years behind real computers, but its still technology that is ever advancing.

Last edited by Wrath And Tears; 11-09-2017 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 11-09-2017, 08:18 AM   #887
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Just drive the damn car. You could wreck it later today. Treat it well, but donít over think it. Not worth that level of concern.
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Old 11-09-2017, 08:27 AM   #888
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You really believe that? Any proof of that?
it's not a matter of belief, but fact. You should not turn a car on and leave it running at idle. you also shouldn't put it in gear *IMMEDIATELY* - you should wait at least 15 seconds or so for the oil to get circulating. but yeah, turn it on ,and start driving. wear some gloves in your hands are cold. also, when you start driving, don't give it more than like 15% throttle, because boost + cold engines/oil = very very bad. wait till oil temp is up (not the gauge under the tachometer, that's the rather-useless coolant gauge) to 180 degrees+ before driving normally
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:17 AM   #889
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Yep... I always start it, put my seat belt on, setup android auto, get some tunes going, and finally get the car moving. I have oil temperature set as my default view in the dash. Drive normally until temperature reaches 180įF. After that let the fun begin
It's worth noting that oil pressure is at its lowest at idle. Idle is not your friend.

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Old 11-09-2017, 02:28 PM   #890
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It's worth noting that oil pressure is at its lowest at idle. Idle is not your friend.

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So I'm clear, I let my car idle only until the idle settles down to ~800rpm. This takes about 45 seconds to a minute. I rarely, if ever, let my car idle for more than a minute or two after startup.
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Old 11-09-2017, 03:31 PM   #891
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it's not a matter of belief, but fact. You should not turn a car on and leave it running at idle. you also shouldn't put it in gear *IMMEDIATELY* - you should wait at least 15 seconds or so for the oil to get circulating. but yeah, turn it on ,and start driving. wear some gloves in your hands are cold. also, when you start driving, don't give it more than like 15% throttle, because boost + cold engines/oil = very very bad. wait till oil temp is up (not the gauge under the tachometer, that's the rather-useless coolant gauge) to 180 degrees+ before driving normally

if it was a matter of fact, there would be proof. Not just theory. Many cars come with remote starts. Maybe you shouldn't idle your car for 20 minutes every morning, But remote starting your car for 5 minutes before you drive will not affect your engine wear a significant amount.

Like another person said, these engines are built to last a long time. People here tune their cars for substantially more power, yet you think a remote start will wear your engine out quicker lol
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Old 11-09-2017, 03:38 PM   #892
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Asian cars are completely different from European cars. You should know that as a former ASE tech. Asian cars are built to withstand some pretty terrible situations because the manufacturers know that people who buy these cars don't give a shit about them. Try treating a Euro car like that and it will die on you. The tolerances are extremely tight with Euro cars, and extremely loose with Asian cars. This is why many Asian vehicles need a valve adjustment every 60k.

Edit: Cars are very much like computers in this day an age. Just cause you knew windows 2000 doesn't mean you understand windows 10. Not trying to be insulting. I work with people twice my age and the stuff they can't understand is eye opening. If you treat a 2017 GTI like a 98 Civic you are going to have a bad time. I say this as some one who has worked in the construction, computer / cellphone repair / sale, and finally Automotive industries. Car computers may be 10 years behind real computers, but its still technology that is ever advancing.
yeah but euro car powertrains for the most part are pretty well built. It's all the electronics, sensors, fuel pumps, & cooling systems that are garbage lol. Yes the Japanese cars are still way more reliable, but the remote start premature engine wear is nonsense. The gti motor isn't a brand new motor. It is more than reliable enough. You are much much more likely to have an expensive repair in the sunroof, headlights, sensors, cooling system, or any of the other electronics.
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Old 11-09-2017, 03:39 PM   #893
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Welp, both A pillars are buzzing now. Really don't want to tear into there anytime soon. Might need to get an exhaust to just drown out the buzzing
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Old 11-10-2017, 02:20 AM   #894
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Asian cars are built to withstand some pretty terrible situations because the manufacturers know that people who buy these cars don't give a shit about them.
Japanese cars are built to be more reliable than any other car (or they used to be, anyway), because every Japanese manufacturer (of almost anything) adheres to a philosophy of total quality. This philosophy was taught to them just after WWII by an American named W. Edwards Deming, who attempted to sell the Big 3 in Detroit on the concept, but they wanted none of it. Why build cars that are as good as a car can be, when you can build disposable ones that people have to replace every 2 years? So, Deming was sent to postwar Japan to help rebuild it, and his ideas caught on so well, that they have a holiday named after him.

It has nothing to do with building cars designed for people who don't give a shit; I've owned many Hondas and worked at several dealerships, and I can tell you this isn't the case. People who don't give a shit about cars buy Chevy sedans or SUVs. Japanese cars are/were built to be as good as they could possibly be, because even if you only sell someone a car once every 7 years, you can bet that everyone that person knows is going to end up buying one as well, as will that person's descendants, for decades to come.

Korean cars are built to be reliable because they basically copy everything the Japanese do, but with cheaper labor.
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Old 11-10-2017, 03:44 AM   #895
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Korean cars are built to be reliable because they basically copy everything the Japanese do, but with cheaper labor.
The koreans just copy everything everyone does. Their cars are completely lacking genuine originality
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Old 11-10-2017, 03:49 AM   #896
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The koreans just copy everything everyone does. Their cars are completely lacking genuine originality
In fairness, they do hire German designers, and a lot of their engineers come from Japan, where some companies have really low mandatory retirement ages. When you come from a culture where working hard is a point of pride, it's hard to just switch it off when you turn 55.

The really shameless knock-offs come from Chinese companies.
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Old 11-10-2017, 05:09 AM   #897
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Originally Posted by Shane_Anigans View Post
Japanese cars are built to be more reliable than any other car (or they used to be, anyway), because every Japanese manufacturer (of almost anything) adheres to a philosophy of total quality. This philosophy was taught to them just after WWII by an American named W. Edwards Deming, who attempted to sell the Big 3 in Detroit on the concept, but they wanted none of it. Why build cars that are as good as a car can be, when you can build disposable ones that people have to replace every 2 years? So, Deming was sent to postwar Japan to help rebuild it, and his ideas caught on so well, that they have a holiday named after him.

It has nothing to do with building cars designed for people who don't give a shit; I've owned many Hondas and worked at several dealerships, and I can tell you this isn't the case. People who don't give a shit about cars buy Chevy sedans or SUVs. Japanese cars are/were built to be as good as they could possibly be, because even if you only sell someone a car once every 7 years, you can bet that everyone that person knows is going to end up buying one as well, as will that person's descendants, for decades to come.

Korean cars are built to be reliable because they basically copy everything the Japanese do, but with cheaper labor.
Fair enough, how ever that is specific for your area. What I said was specific for my area (in regard to the customers who own the cars, I should have stated that, I apologize). I totally agree Japanese cars are built amazing, but you also have to understand what it means to own a car in Japan. It is crazy expensive, so expensive that after 4 years of ownership when you would have to pay a crazy expensive tax to keep driving your car, most Japanese people who can afford a car simple go buy a new car (to them, it could still be a cheap used car), while selling their current car.

I've never once seen a car which has only had oil changes at a quick lube until something major happens at a dealership (but my experience at dealerships is limited to my time picking up parts and stuff). For the most part people who bring their cars to the dealership actually care about their cars, if not their wallets. Dealerships are only one half of the coin, the other is independent shops. I've worked on cars with so much rust that I was able to poke holes in the frame with my fingers, in my area dealerships don't see cars like that. So once again it all comes down to your location.

Edit: I completely agree with you about they used to be built that way, 80-90's Toyota Land Cruisers are some of the most bullet proof amazing SUV's I've ever worked on, and that's kind of what I meant by my comment, the older Asian cars are great, but the newer ones not so much.
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Old 11-10-2017, 05:20 AM   #898
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Fair enough, how ever that is specific for your area. What I said was specific for my area (in regard to the customers who own the cars, I should have stated that, I apologize). I totally agree Japanese cars are built amazing, but you also have to understand what it means to own a car in Japan. It is crazy expensive, so expensive that after 4 years of ownership when you would have to pay a crazy expensive tax to keep driving your car, most Japanese people who can afford a car simple go buy a new car (to them, it could still be a cheap used car), while selling their current car.

I've never once seen a car which has only had oil changes at a quick lube until something major happens at a dealership (but my experience at dealerships is limited to my time picking up parts and stuff). For the most part people who bring their cars to the dealership actually care about their cars, if not their wallets. Dealerships are only one half of the coin, the other is independent shops. I've worked on cars with so much rust that I was able to poke holes in the frame with my fingers, in my area dealerships don't see cars like that. So once again it all comes down to your location.

Edit: I completely agree with you about they used to be built that way, 80-90's Toyota Land Cruisers are some of the most bullet proof amazing SUV's I've ever worked on, and that's kind of what I meant by my comment, the older Asian cars are great, but the newer ones not so much.
My uncle used to make a good living buying those older Japanese cars and reselling them in other markets (central Africa LOVES old Toyotas), but that's more to do with the government passing a law that makes you buy a new car every few years; if not for that inspection that you'll almost certainly fail, most people don't drive enough in Japan to ever need more than 1-2 cars in their lifetime.

Meanwhile, at the BMW dealer where I used to work, I've seen some positively appalling things done to leased luxury cars. Because 15,000 mile service intervals are just too much of a hassle, just don't change the oil until you turn it in, right?

Sadly, the heyday of bulletproof Japanese cars ended when Honda and Toyota decided they wanted to sell more cars than anyone else, and we all know that high volume and impeccable quality are rarely found in the same product. Same thing happened with Mercedes. (And boy, have we dragged this thread a few miles off-topic!)
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Old 11-10-2017, 05:33 AM   #899
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My uncle used to make a good living buying those older Japanese cars and reselling them in other markets (central Africa LOVES old Toyotas), but that's more to do with the government passing a law that makes you buy a new car every few years; if not for that inspection that you'll almost certainly fail, most people don't drive enough in Japan to ever need more than 1-2 cars in their lifetime.

Meanwhile, at the BMW dealer where I used to work, I've seen some positively appalling things done to leased luxury cars. Because 15,000 mile service intervals are just too much of a hassle, just don't change the oil until you turn it in, right?

Sadly, the heyday of bulletproof Japanese cars ended when Honda and Toyota decided they wanted to sell more cars than anyone else, and we all know that high volume and impeccable quality are rarely found in the same product. Same thing happened with Mercedes. (And boy, have we dragged this thread a few miles off-topic!)

Yeah, BMW owners are a special breed unfortunately. Oh shit, you're right, my bad. Um..... The most annoying thing about my GTI was having to take it to the dealer today. The best thing about my GTI is that it got fixed and updated and was painless to drop off the car and pick it up. Even though I didn't have an appointment, My service adviser for the dealership used to work at my shop and I knew him when I was just a young lad (family business I will be taking over at some point), and they were slow so I was able to sneak it in.
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Old 11-11-2017, 07:34 PM   #900
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Originally Posted by Wrath And Tears View Post
Asian cars are completely different from European cars. You should know that as a former ASE tech. Asian cars are built to withstand some pretty terrible situations because the manufacturers know that people who buy these cars don't give a shit about them. Try treating a Euro car like that and it will die on you. The tolerances are extremely tight with Euro cars, and extremely loose with Asian cars. This is why many Asian vehicles need a valve adjustment every 60k.

Edit: Cars are very much like computers in this day an age. Just cause you knew windows 2000 doesn't mean you understand windows 10. Not trying to be insulting. I work with people twice my age and the stuff they can't understand is eye opening. If you treat a 2017 GTI like a 98 Civic you are going to have a bad time. I say this as some one who has worked in the construction, computer / cellphone repair / sale, and finally Automotive industries. Car computers may be 10 years behind real computers, but its still technology that is ever advancing.
The problem with German cars has usually not been a lack of durability in their engines. It is how they always try to over-engineer things. Like when Audi began using plastic end-links on their AR bars. Or when Audi rubberized their interior switches/controls to make them feel premium, when in fact they disintegrated in a few short years. All of the work I ever did on German cars was related to incidental components, not critical stuff (in the 90's, I know now they have had HPFP critical failures etc). I never R/R'd a German engine. Did lots of American cars and some very high-mileage Honda's.

Also, I come from a time of Honda needing valve adjustments every 15K miles, this persisted well into the early 90's, and many of my favorite Honda's/Acura's required this adjustment, along with oil changes of between 3K-7.5K depending on YOUR personal philosophy (mine was 6K at the time). My GTI is a dream to own compared to my old Honda's/Acura's because it only asks for minor stuff like an oil change every 10K+ miles. I would say I CAN "neglect" a Mk7 GTI the same as a 1991 Honda, to a reasonable degree, assuming I have the same value on both vehicles (i.e. I could REALLY neglect a $500 Honda if I wanted to!)
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Old 11-12-2017, 01:22 AM   #901
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Over the top tech and cheap breakable plastics is what plagued by euros I owned over the last 10 years.

VW Polo I had, engine was bullet proof but the ABS units, window regulators, fuel pumps, ignition barrel etc. were the things that just fell apart and often. The BMWs I had - issues with the display, cooling system, fans, windows, electrics. But I could treat the engine with total neglect and it was a trooper.

The e46 and e90 4cyls were plagued by oil leaks.
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