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Suspension Overhaul - Clarifying Questions

flipflp

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
GolfWang said:
This does sound good. I wouldn’t mind a setup that allows me near-stock ride height during the winter and the ability to lower in summer


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Click to expand...

I was 100% like Tooly from his previous post about having coilovers in the past and never adjusting them. I've now had 2 different "cup kits" to meet my goals and I'm still not 100% happy. What would have done it would have been buying a $1000-1500 coilover kit from the beginning, setting my ride height like I wanted, if I had damping adjustments then doing that until I was pleased with both a street and track setting, and then at that point leaving it alone. I'm just now getting to that point 3 years later and money wasted on installs.

For a car that sees winter, being able to hike the car up an extra 1" if needed without 100% swapping suspension is also awesome.

Don't do what I did (or Hammersticks did to a MUCH greater extent haha, sorry bro) and waste money trying to find that special sauce from coils and shocks IF (big if, not trying to discourage anyone else) you see some benefits to coilovers. If you're going to regret not having a feature only coilovers can give you, get coilovers IMO.
 
Hammersticks

Hammersticks

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Bay Area, CA
Car(s)
'16 GTI, '18 e-Golf
Flipflp, no worries. I have been completely open and honest about my experience. I haven’t spent a dime on installation costs and have resold used components without losing my shirt. Has it cost me time? Yes. Has it cost me money? Yes. Have I enjoyed the experience learning and becoming more knowledgeable? Absolutely. Would I do it the same way on my next car? At my age, no.

To be fair though, my priorities have changed over the course of several years though, and have been dialing it back.

Honestly, my setup now is pretty much perfect. But I am a perfectionist, and I get bored. So if I need to spend a couple hundred bucks on a new set of springs to completely alter the way the car behaves then it’s not a bad deal for me. Maybe something like street comfort coils would be perfect for me but at this point I am not interested in dropping that kind of money. (Maybe I should set up a gofundme to support my habit [emoji1])

The thing about coils is you also have a greater potential for losing $ on selling used coils...and if you don’t like the ride then you are stuck. At least you have the option to change springs if you don’t like them. Again, this coming from a guy who does his own work. No way I’d ever pay installation fees for everything I’ve done so I completely understand guys who only want to do this once.


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Hammersticks

Hammersticks

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Bay Area, CA
Car(s)
'16 GTI, '18 e-Golf
GolfWang said:
.



I'm 25 and single, not 40+ with a family. I can deal with a bit of roughness, as long as it's not teeth shattering.
Click to expand...


H&R OE Sports and Koni Sports meets that requirement. It’s a solid combo without major flaws imo.

Anyway, lots to digest I know.

Good luck!



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Tooly

Tooly

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Kelowna, BC Canada
Car(s)
2018 GTI Autobahn
GolfWang said:
Oh wow. I LOVE that drop (or, the lack thereof). TT rear spring pads or nah?


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No TT pads on the rear on my install. I think that would give the car a little too much rake (for my taste anyways).
 
flipflp

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
Flipflp, no worries. I have been completely open and honest about my experience. I haven’t spent a dime on installation costs and have resold used components without losing my shirt. Has it cost me time? Yes. Has it cost me money? Yes. Have I enjoyed the experience learning and becoming more knowledgeable? Absolutely. Would I do it the same way on my next car? At my age, no.
Click to expand...

I definitely don't think you need pity or sympathy haha, I know guys like you and even through struggles you've enjoyed and learned. We've all learned too, so thanks!

I think that's the other issue, priorities. I wanted to track my car when I first got it but made a lot of decisions that accidentally created a bit of a cruiser. Now I'm having to go backwards to get something more track focused. Sounds like you've gone the other way where maybe a coilover wouldn't calm down enough for a daily driver. I get that.

Coilovers aren't all rough, crashy things. Street comforts have always caught my eye for a daily as well. I've also learned in time that stiff springs with good dampers feel GREAT, and that stiff doesn't equal bad.

So much of NVH sensitivity is based on the person. If my car didn't have so much suspension noise, it's firm but not harsh, and never hits bump stops, and is close to coilover stiffness as this point. I drive 30 miles a day through bad LA streets and I wouldn't trade it for anything.
 
PLF8593

PLF8593

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Philly
Car(s)
19 Alltrack 6MT
Yeah installation is definitely not a thing I can do. And the guys I take my car to do fantastic work, but i'm paying for it in specialist spades.

I do not think I need coils. I live in Philly and the roads are utter garbage. Even on stock suspension I find roads that I literally have to reverse to the entrance of and go a different way, so I really can't afford to lower my car. I also don't care enough to change my driving habits just because my car is lowered.

I will be perfectly happy with a super duper chill drop, say .5-.75", and less floaty handling characteristics with similar comfort to stock. But I do like performance... I do want a performance improvement. More than I want more comfort... christ.

I don't want to make the mistake I made with Unitronic. I am pretty unhappy with my Uni TCU tune. Since this is my first of 3 GTIs owned that I've modded, I always thought I'd be a very OEM+ guy in terms of modding. And that's why I thought I'd be perfectly happy with Uni, since they get so many glowing reviews from people who have that OEM+ mindset. But damn, it is way too OEM for me. I want hard coded minimum shift points, idgaf about losing 1 or 2 mpg around town (noteworthy is that Going S1 ECU/TCU made absolutely zero effect on my gas mileage, in all circumstances. Going hard, going for economy, mixed, all highway, all city... it's completely unchanged lol).

So my experience with going too OEM+ with Unitronic has me worried about taking the same approach with suspension as well. I want to be happy with it. And I can safely say I will trade some comfort for performance, but I can't trade too much ride height.

So in terms of dampers I should be looking at B6's and Koni (Insert non-lowering spring designed damper product line here), and for springs I was thinking Golf R springs? I really like the OEM ride height of the R's. It's perfectly sufficient for me. Or would the characteristics change too much due to the difference in weight and weight distribution on the Golf R?
 
flipflp

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
GolfWang said:
Yeah installation is definitely not a thing I can do. And the guys I take my car to do fantastic work, but i'm paying for it in specialist spades.

I do not think I need coils. I live in Philly and the roads are utter garbage. Even on stock suspension I find roads that I literally have to reverse to the entrance of and go a different way, so I really can't afford to lower my car. I also don't care enough to change my driving habits just because my car is lowered.

I will be perfectly happy with a super duper chill drop, say .5-.75", and less floaty handling characteristics with similar comfort to stock. But I do like performance... I do want a performance improvement. More than I want more comfort... christ.

I don't want to make the mistake I made with Unitronic. I am pretty unhappy with my Uni TCU tune. Since this is my first of 3 GTIs owned that I've modded, I always thought I'd be a very OEM+ guy in terms of modding. And that's why I thought I'd be perfectly happy with Uni, since they get so many glowing reviews from people who have that OEM+ mindset. But damn, it is way too OEM for me. I want hard coded minimum shift points, idgaf about losing 1 or 2 mpg around town (noteworthy is that Going S1 ECU/TCU made absolutely zero effect on my gas mileage, in all circumstances. Going hard, going for economy, mixed, all highway, all city... it's completely unchanged lol).

So my experience with going too OEM+ with Unitronic has me worried about taking the same approach with suspension as well. I want to be happy with it. And I can safely say I will trade some comfort for performance, but I can't trade too much ride height.

So in terms of dampers I should be looking at B6's and Koni (Insert non-lowering spring designed damper product line here), and for springs I was thinking Golf R springs? I really like the OEM ride height of the R's. It's perfectly sufficient for me. Or would the characteristics change too much due to the difference in weight and weight distribution on the Golf R?
Click to expand...

H&R OE Sports or DG Springs and Koni Yellows (Sports) like Hammersticks recommended, or the B8 Bilsteins with Euro B12 Springs like Tooly has. I wouldn't mess with OEM R springs for the reasons you pointed out, would likely end up high in the rear. Get a set of springs meant for the GTI.
 
G

gtikc

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
NJ, South NJ
OP it sounds like what you need is a good set of coilovers. You can go back and forth trying to find a perfect spring and damper combination, or you can get some good coils that will allow you to customize the height and ride quality to how you like.

I was thinking of going the springs route on my mk 7, but the Koni's I had on my mk 6 were pretty fantastic. Stock(or better) quality ride with outstanding damping, super flat cornering, and allowed me to eliminate understeer completely by running the back end stiffter than the front. That was the biggest benefit in my opinion, car outright refused to understeer ever.

You can't dial in a specific customized feel with the springs and dampers. You get what you get once its installed, and it sounds like your worried you might be let down by the wrong combination.

Coils you can also choose, and change your ride height(and damping), getting performance benefits even if you keep the car close to, or at stock height.

You can mix and match springs and dampers or get a whole system that works together out of the box without the guess work. it's more expensive yes, but in the long run, its not THAT much more expensive. Spend time on getting your adjustments right(or let the shop do it) in the beginning and never think about it again....or change it as often as you like....hard for the track.....soft for a road trip etc. it's good to have options

I'm from jersey and drove the shit philly streets daily for work. Coils don't automatically mean a slammed car. The height is up to you. just my opinion.
 
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flipflp

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
GTI KC said:
I was thinking of going the springs route on my mk 7, but the Koni's I had on my mk 6 were pretty fantastic.
Click to expand...

MK5/MK6 Koni Coilovers were really something special, it's a damn shame they don't have them for MK7 applications. You definitely had one of the best coilover experiences you could have had for ~$1000 there. Only sorta flaws in that kit were front dead spring contact/noise (which I think they revised on later models) and the fact that the rear shocks were adjusted up top. Damn near bought that setup for my CC 2-3 times. :eek:

I think the closest to that setup in the MK7 world would be something like KW Street Comfort, Sachs, or PSS9/10s, though the Sachs and Bilsteins are more performance oriented IMO. Of course there are also setups like Ohlins and all that are the holy grail, but that's blowing most budgets out of the water.

Outside of adjustability for ride height, a set of Koni Yellows and no-so aggressive lowering springs would be what OP is looking for.
 
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D

DiscusInferno

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Kalifornia
Keep in mind, Koni Sports (Yellow) are only adjustable in the rebound setting.

Koni is starting to phase in Special Active lowering kits, combined with Eibach Pro.Kit springs. A MK7 application is not yet available.
 
PLF8593

PLF8593

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Philly
Car(s)
19 Alltrack 6MT
Hm. Maybe I'm getting Street Comforts. That's what I always used to have in mind anyway.

Edit: Yes. I'm getting Street Comforts. Thanks for the help everyone.

So just to confirm: I should get: 1&2) OEM strut mounts/bearings up front, and 3) OEM strut mounts in back? are there no bearings for the rear since no steering? And of course stretch bolts. Should I just buy the suspension install kit from DAP? I am beyond excited to do this shit.
 
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PLF8593

PLF8593

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Philly
Car(s)
19 Alltrack 6MT
GTI KC said:
OP it sounds like what you need is a good set of coilovers. You can go back and forth trying to find a perfect spring and damper combination, or you can get some good coils that will allow you to customize the height and ride quality to how you like.

I was thinking of going the springs route on my mk 7, but the Koni's I had on my mk 6 were pretty fantastic. Stock(or better) quality ride with outstanding damping, super flat cornering, and allowed me to eliminate understeer completely by running the back end stiffter than the front. That was the biggest benefit in my opinion, car outright refused to understeer ever.

You can't dial in a specific customized feel with the springs and dampers. You get what you get once its installed, and it sounds like your worried you might be let down by the wrong combination.

Coils you can also choose, and change your ride height(and damping), getting performance benefits even if you keep the car close to, or at stock height.

You can mix and match springs and dampers or get a whole system that works together out of the box without the guess work. it's more expensive yes, but in the long run, its not THAT much more expensive. Spend time on getting your adjustments right(or let the shop do it) in the beginning and never think about it again....or change it as often as you like....hard for the track.....soft for a road trip etc. it's good to have options

I'm from jersey and drove the shit philly streets daily for work. Coils don't automatically mean a slammed car. The height is up to you. just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the heads up man. What are you running? Any chance you'd be willing to meet up with me, let me ride in the passenger seat of your car so I can see what your setup feels like?
 
AtlantaDad

AtlantaDad

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Cumming, GA
GolfWang said:
Hm. Maybe I'm getting Street Comforts. That's what I always used to have in mind anyway.

Edit: Yes. I'm getting Street Comforts. Thanks for the help everyone.

So just to confirm: I should get: 1&2) OEM strut mounts/bearings up front, and 3) OEM strut mounts in back? are there no bearings for the rear since no steering? And of course stretch bolts. Should I just buy the suspension install kit from DAP? I am beyond excited to do this shit.
Click to expand...
Yes to all. I'll PM you my shipping address. [emoji23]

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