GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV
FORUM OPTIONS
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   GOLFMK7 - VW GTI MKVII Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVII Forum > Volkswagen GTI / Golf MK7 General Topics > GTI & Golf MK7 General Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-23-2018, 12:39 AM   #324
Reggie Enchilada
Senior Member
 
Drives: MK7 GTI
Location: WV
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath And Tears View Post
LMAO. I've never seen a pedestrian struck by a car and fly through the hood making contact with the engine, man that would be a sight. I guess that's why they dropped the Plastic battery box, because too many people were flying through hoods and getting hurt, but with the felt or no cover, its good to go!
If you want real world testing of pedestrian impacts, just ask Tesla and Uber.....

Too soon?
__________________
2016 GTI 6MT: ED Maestro Stg2 base, E30, Brisk ER12S plugs, Bull-X catless DP, Forge CF intake, CTS TIP, Uni IC, CTS charge pipes, Boomba BOV, ECS boost tap, Revo drivetrain mounts, Stg3 BFI clutch, ECS bleeder block, ECS SS clutch line, Boomba shift knob, APR short shift levers, ECS brass shifter cable end link bushings, ECS aluminum shifter cable bracket bushings, O34 spherical end-links, ST RSB, ECS skid plate, deAuto 6000k HID low beams, Nokya 3000k halogen high beams
Reggie Enchilada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 12:45 AM   #325
Wrath And Tears
Senior Member
 
Drives: 17 Sport DSG
Location: Bay Area, CA
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie Enchilada View Post
If you want real world testing of pedestrian impacts, just ask Tesla and Uber.....

Too soon?
I just read about that yesterday. I'm interested to read the official report when it gets published.
Wrath And Tears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 12:49 AM   #326
Reggie Enchilada
Senior Member
 
Drives: MK7 GTI
Location: WV
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath And Tears View Post
I just read about that yesterday. I'm interested to read the official report when it gets published.
There was some info that came out today including the video's of the impact. Supposedly she was in the sensors' range and detection areas and should have been picked up by them.
__________________
2016 GTI 6MT: ED Maestro Stg2 base, E30, Brisk ER12S plugs, Bull-X catless DP, Forge CF intake, CTS TIP, Uni IC, CTS charge pipes, Boomba BOV, ECS boost tap, Revo drivetrain mounts, Stg3 BFI clutch, ECS bleeder block, ECS SS clutch line, Boomba shift knob, APR short shift levers, ECS brass shifter cable end link bushings, ECS aluminum shifter cable bracket bushings, O34 spherical end-links, ST RSB, ECS skid plate, deAuto 6000k HID low beams, Nokya 3000k halogen high beams
Reggie Enchilada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 01:04 AM   #327
CB1111
Senior Member
 
Drives: GTI
Location: Washington DC Metro
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath And Tears View Post
LMAO. I've never seen a pedestrian struck by a car and fly through the hood making contact with the engine, man that would be a sight. I guess that's why they dropped the Plastic battery box, because too many people were flying through hoods and getting hurt, but with the felt or no cover, its good to go!
Actually, you'll note that car hoods are getting taller with more space between the hood and the engine for that very reason. Some bedtime reading. This is only one of many studies done internationally. For those of you unable to see the link, one pertinent part is below. Bolding is mine.
__________________________

Based on the results of the conceptual studies design recomendations were made for three areas;
ΠNecessary free space underneath the bonnet to avoid contact with rigid engine parts;
ΠNecessary free space between bumper skin and aluminium bumper beam;
ΠLocation of the joints between the outer surface panels. These joint locations normally create local stiffnessess in the impact zone, which make
it difficult to achieve the proposed EEVC pedestrian safety requirements.
__________________________________

Often these regs are in conflict with other regs. How do you provide sufficient crush space between the bumper cover and the bumper for pedestrian safety, yet comply with the US bumper rules.
CB1111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 02:00 AM   #328
Wrath And Tears
Senior Member
 
Drives: 17 Sport DSG
Location: Bay Area, CA
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB1111 View Post
Actually, you'll note that car hoods are getting taller with more space between the hood and the engine for that very reason.
That study is about a company designing a special hood and bumper to help increase pedestrian safety. I get what you mean, but it's legal to drive around without a hood or bumper or doors or windows.

So if you want to link to the US federal or even a state law that says removing engine bay covers is illegal citing pedestrian safety, then I guess you would be right. I found this about pedestrian safety, and all the changes are due to European and Asian guidelines and not US guidelines.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...fatter-feature

This article then backs that up saying that the US doesn't really care.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/12/...-does-nothing/

All the European safety regulations are for low speed impacts, like 5mph. Bumpers have been designed in a fashion to send the pedestrian onto the hood, instead of under or backwards. The bumpers also crumple slightly to help prevent damage to the pedestrian's limbs. Hoods are now softer and crumple easier to help absorb the impact and prevent damage so, like you said underhood clearance is important. That being said older cars were not build with these regulations and had very hard hoods that wouldn't crumple. If you want to talk about new laws and regulations, do it about new cars that were built to conform to those laws and regulations, otherwise it doesn't make much sense.

Last edited by Wrath And Tears; 03-23-2018 at 02:09 AM.
Wrath And Tears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 06:28 AM   #329
KevinC
Senior Member
 
KevinC's Avatar
 
Drives: '16 Golf R, '17 Kawasaki Versys 650
Location: Hereford, AZ, USA
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie Enchilada View Post
If you want real world testing of pedestrian impacts, just ask Tesla and Uber.....
The human co-driver was clearly not doing her job, and the car apparently SHOULD have been able to at least "see" the jaywalker with its lidar and apply the brakes, but pretty clearly didn't. Looks like there's blame all around here. But the fact that both the car & human attendant didn't perform is quite troubling...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...r-tempe-video/
__________________
'16 Golf R 6MT DCC/DAP Oryx
'17 Kawasaki Versys 650
KevinC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 08:28 AM   #330
Reggie Enchilada
Senior Member
 
Drives: MK7 GTI
Location: WV
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
The human co-driver was clearly not doing her job, and the car apparently SHOULD have been able to at least "see" the jaywalker with its lidar and apply the brakes, but pretty clearly didn't. Looks like there's blame all around here. But the fact that both the car & human attendant didn't perform is quite troubling...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...r-tempe-video/
Yup, it'll be interesting to see what the investigation turns up
__________________
2016 GTI 6MT: ED Maestro Stg2 base, E30, Brisk ER12S plugs, Bull-X catless DP, Forge CF intake, CTS TIP, Uni IC, CTS charge pipes, Boomba BOV, ECS boost tap, Revo drivetrain mounts, Stg3 BFI clutch, ECS bleeder block, ECS SS clutch line, Boomba shift knob, APR short shift levers, ECS brass shifter cable end link bushings, ECS aluminum shifter cable bracket bushings, O34 spherical end-links, ST RSB, ECS skid plate, deAuto 6000k HID low beams, Nokya 3000k halogen high beams
Reggie Enchilada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 08:56 AM   #331
Chogokin
Senior Member
 
Chogokin's Avatar
 
Drives: GTI Sport/MK6 JSW/Banshee Spitfire/Cervelo S2
Location: So Cal
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 500
These cars seem to drive pretty well stock. Removing the low mileage stock parts...that you paid for and removing them and replacing them with new aftermarket parts seem like a waste of money...but I did do it.

I felt pretty bad taking off my stock suspension for some coilovers after a month. They weren't even dirty! Same with my tail lights. Car was four months old when I took them off. I just got a piggyback for the engine...don't want to risk the engine warranty with a tune. It think that would be the biggest waste if I had to pick up the repair bill for my engine if my warranty was denied because of a flash tune.

Modding a car can be a huge money pit and you'll never recover anywhere near what you spent. I've been there and done that.
Chogokin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 02:06 PM   #332
ElectricEye
Senior Member
 
ElectricEye's Avatar
 
Drives: '15 MK7 Reflex Silver
Location: NJ
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
The human co-driver was clearly not doing her job, and the car apparently SHOULD have been able to at least "see" the jaywalker with its lidar and apply the brakes, but pretty clearly didn't. Looks like there's blame all around here. But the fact that both the car & human attendant didn't perform is quite troubling...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...r-tempe-video/
I would doubt if the human co drivers job was to be continuously at the ready and expected to jump to alertness in an emergency situation.
ElectricEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 02:59 PM   #333
Strange Mud
Senior Member
 
Strange Mud's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 GTI Sport
Location: Small Town CT
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 878
serious? If not what was their job?

on the other forum is a interesting discussion about it. I've mentioned how difficult it is to be backup and always ready.....

on topic I agree with these cars seem to do alot right the way they are sold.....although shifter/clutch could use some improvement in my (and others) opinion
Strange Mud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 03:05 PM   #334
ElectricEye
Senior Member
 
ElectricEye's Avatar
 
Drives: '15 MK7 Reflex Silver
Location: NJ
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Mud View Post
serious? If not what was their job?

on the other forum is a interesting discussion about it. I've mentioned how difficult it is to be backup and always ready.....
She's there to be in the car, monitor the vehicle, drive it if need be.
They are not sending the car off on its own.
What I'm saying is the human is not there to be hair trigger ready to leap into action.
And this accident illustrates one of the fallacies of self driving cars:
The human seated at the wheel in an autonomous car will never be at the ready in the same way one would be if they were actually piloting the car.
The reaction time just wouldn't be there.
What would be the point of an autonomously driven vehicle anyway, if the human in it was expected to maintain the same level of alertness as one who was actually driving?
You might as well drive.
ElectricEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 03:11 PM   #335
imthanick_a
Senior Member
 
imthanick_a's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 GTI SE
Location: Ohio
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
She's there to be in the car, monitor the vehicle, drive it if need be.
They are not sending the car off on its own.
What I'm saying is the human is not there to be hair trigger ready to leap into action.
And this accident illustrates one of the fallacies of self driving cars:
The human seated at the wheel in an autonomous car will never be at the ready in the same way one would be if they were actually piloting the car.
The reaction time just wouldn't be there.
What would be the point of an autonomously driven vehicle anyway, if the human in it was expected to maintain the same level of alertness as one who was actually driving?
You might as well drive.

I watched the video and she was looking down at her phone or napping using her 8 chins as a pillow or something. While I generally agree the driver will never be as you said, a hair trigger, I think she should have been paying attention a little more than she was. Neglect on her part, as well as a system failure of the autonomous car. This is a strange case, it's hard to determine who is at fault. Glad I'm not a lawyer or on the jury for this one
__________________
2016 Tornado Red GTI SE with PP, LP, and DCC
Neuspeed P-Flo, 034 Dogbone Mount Insert, JB1, ECS Tuning Stainless Steel Rear Brake Lines, Fast FC04 Bronze with Sumitomo HTR Z III, AWE Track Edition Catback
imthanick_a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 03:20 PM   #336
ElectricEye
Senior Member
 
ElectricEye's Avatar
 
Drives: '15 MK7 Reflex Silver
Location: NJ
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by imthanick_a View Post
I watched the video and she was looking down at her phone or napping using her 8 chins as a pillow or something. While I generally agree the driver will never be as you said, a hair trigger, I think she should have been paying attention a little more than she was. Neglect on her part, as well as a system failure of the autonomous car. This is a strange case, it's hard to determine who is at fault. Glad I'm not a lawyer or on the jury for this one
I don't know...
I'm not trying to give her a pass, but I don't know what the rules are or were governing a person siting in an autonomous test car.
I'm assuming that it is not to maintain continuous vigilance as a driver would.
I do believe that a driver would have seen the woman with the bike.
We are seeing dashcam footage, and it looks way darker than it should.
I drive my car on some very dark roads, and I see way more than that footage shows.
I also believe that the car failed to do its job, as the woman with the bike didn't leap in front of the car like a deer.
If the car can't detect a human in the roadway and react accordingly, what good is it?
ElectricEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 03:26 PM   #337
CB1111
Senior Member
 
Drives: GTI
Location: Washington DC Metro
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath And Tears View Post
That study is about a company designing a special hood and bumper to help increase pedestrian safety. I get what you mean, but it's legal to drive around without a hood or bumper or doors or windows.

So if you want to link to the US federal or even a state law that says removing engine bay covers is illegal citing pedestrian safety, then I guess you would be right. I found this about pedestrian safety, and all the changes are due to European and Asian guidelines and not US guidelines.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...fatter-feature

This article then backs that up saying that the US doesn't really care.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/12/...-does-nothing/

All the European safety regulations are for low speed impacts, like 5mph. Bumpers have been designed in a fashion to send the pedestrian onto the hood, instead of under or backwards. The bumpers also crumple slightly to help prevent damage to the pedestrian's limbs. Hoods are now softer and crumple easier to help absorb the impact and prevent damage so, like you said underhood clearance is important. That being said older cars were not build with these regulations and had very hard hoods that wouldn't crumple. If you want to talk about new laws and regulations, do it about new cars that were built to conform to those laws and regulations, otherwise it doesn't make much sense.
European pedestrian safety laws have been in place for many years - they are just getting more stringent again.

My point was that manufacturers do everything for a reason - and that reason may not always be cost-cutting. You may recall the brouhaha here on the MK5 when people were complaining about cost cutting because US models didn't come with the change cubby.

It turned out that the cubby was removed because it didn't comply with occupant protection requirements here in the US. Removing that cubby actually cost VW extra money - they had to redesign brackets and panels to meet the standards.
CB1111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 03:27 PM   #338
Diggs24
Senior Member
 
Diggs24's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 GTI; 2003 Saab 9-3 SS
Location: Flyover Country, looking at JB4 logs
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,731
I thought it was a man.....
__________________
ED Moose E50 tune / ED DSG tune / Tomioka IHX475 Turbo / IE Intercooler / MAP cat+res Downpipe / Autotech HPFP
Diggs24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 03:27 PM   #339
AtlantaDad
Senior Member
 
Drives: Night Blue 2016 GTI Autobahn DSG PP LP
Location: Atlanta, GA
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by imthanick_a View Post
I watched the video and she was looking down at her phone or napping using her 8 chins as a pillow or something. While I generally agree the driver will never be as you said, a hair trigger, I think she should have been paying attention a little more than she was. Neglect on her part, as well as a system failure of the autonomous car. This is a strange case, it's hard to determine who is at fault. Glad I'm not a lawyer or on the jury for this one
Wait...that's a woman?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
__________________
2016 GTI NB PP LP | Cobb AP w/ MAPerformance Stage 2 | MAPerformance Catted/Resonated DP | Baun Performance FMIC | APR TIP | AFE drop-in w/ snow guard delete | 034 Dogbone Insert | Stoptech Slotted Rotors w/ EBC RedStuff Pads

Thou shalt read this first: http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18297
AtlantaDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2018, 03:27 PM   #340
imthanick_a
Senior Member
 
imthanick_a's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 GTI SE
Location: Ohio
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,133
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
I don't know...
I'm not trying to give her a pass, but I don't know what the rules are or were governing a person siting in an autonomous test car.
I'm assuming that it is not to maintain continuous vigilance as a driver would.
I do believe that a driver would have seen the woman with the bike.
We are seeing dashcam footage, and it looks way darker than it should.
I drive my car on some very dark roads, and I see way more than that footage shows.
I also believe that the car failed to do its job, as the woman with the bike didn't leap in front of the car like a deer.
If the car can't detect a human in the roadway and react accordingly, what good is it?
I agree with everything you mentioned. I definitely don't give her a pass, but the designers of the car should have measures in place to keep her focused on the road. I believe Tesla has those features, where if it cant see your eyes it yells at you if you look away for too long or close your eyes.

Well, I will stop derailing the thread now - I'm being a hypocrite as I always call people out for doing it, now look at me
__________________
2016 Tornado Red GTI SE with PP, LP, and DCC
Neuspeed P-Flo, 034 Dogbone Mount Insert, JB1, ECS Tuning Stainless Steel Rear Brake Lines, Fast FC04 Bronze with Sumitomo HTR Z III, AWE Track Edition Catback
imthanick_a is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.