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Old 03-15-2018, 06:28 PM   #1
Chuckable
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Question Goldilocks Suspension Set-up?



Relatively new guy here with a 2016 GTI PP/LP with DSG. It's a daily driver but I want to be able to do some autocross (non-class specific, just for fun) and maybe a track day once in a long while. I've done some autocross and track days before so I know enough to know that I don't know much except that seat time is key.

In addition to some lighter weight wheels and stickier tires, I'd like to do a basic suspension set-up that's daily driver comfortable but still purposeful for autocross and HPDE.

I've done coilovers before and don't need that much adjustability for what I'm doing.

I'll do a rear sway bar (maybe 034 Motorsports), but am having trouble finding springs and a front camber set-up that are a good compromise. The 034 Motorsports Camber Mounts reportedly give an extra -1.4 camber:

https://store.034motorsport.com/dyna...-ttrs-mqb.html

People seem to be getting around -1.1 front camber when lowered roughly 1". So, adding the Camber Mounts would be about -2.5 front camber, which I think is a bit too much.

Anyone have any ides about a suspension set-up that lowers no more than 1", is no more than about 50% increase in spring rate, is compatible with single-adjustable dampers, and will give around -1.5 to -2.0 camber up front?
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:37 PM   #2
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Clubsport S swivels. They decrease camber by about 1 deg. Expensive solution, but no increase in NVH, and it's a VW part, so no compatibility issues. Audi front bearings are standard on the CSS. Don't know why, but if you're going this far, may as well go all the way.
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:44 PM   #3
Chuckable
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Goldilocks Suspension Set-up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmason View Post
Clubsport S swivels. They decrease camber by about 1 deg. Expensive solution, but no increase in NVH, and it's a VW part, so no compatibility issues. Audi front bearings are standard on the CSS. Don't know why, but if you're going this far, may as well go all the way.


Thank you, jmason. I checked out the other thread you were involved in about those, but they're a bit expensive for my budget. Hoping to find an alternative, but may find that these are the only option.

Also, read that the CSS parts only give about an extra -0.5° camber. Is that correct?

Last edited by Chuckable; 03-15-2018 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 03-15-2018, 07:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckable View Post
Also, read that the CSS parts only give about an extra -0.5° camber. Is that correct?
You are probably correct. Faulty memory.
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Old 03-15-2018, 07:21 PM   #5
Chuckable
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmason View Post
You are probably correct. Faulty memory.
No problem. From what I read of your post, the Superpro control arm + CSS spindles gave an extra -1.0 camber up front. That's roughly $1000+ for 1 degree, which I just don't have the money for. It would be just about perfect though
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Old 03-17-2018, 01:56 PM   #6
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If you want camber w/o nvh, the options I know of are going to be the fixed 034s or decent coilovers that come w/ plates. You could do IE or Ground Control plates but people report nvh. What I’d recommend is start with a rsb and lowering springs. I did H&R and VWR respectively. That will flatten the car way out and help the rear start rotating. Stop there and see what you like / don’t like. Both of those are in your suspension future if you want to do things off the street. I drove my R for 16 track days like that and the car performed like a champ (more of that was due to a BBK and Stage 2 tune).

The decent coilover path is the real answer to your camber-focused angle. I swapped out my springs and stock dampers for KW Clubsports and the car is now better on the street and track... 2 deg of camber, can go up to 2.8 or so. Obviously, this ignores budget, but that’s the only one it breaks.

The other thing I’d throw out on springs—MSS. The VWRs weren’t great on the street after a year. Super crashy on hard streets, even in DCC comfort. MSS’ kits are better suited for the mixed mission. I have them on another MQB car and have been very happy. They cost a lot more than VWR or H&R though. But MSS plus the 034 fixed camber plates could work as the best sub-KW suspension upgrade in terms of performance.
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:39 PM   #7
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Other option for slightly increased camber is Powerflex camber adjustable bushing. No experience with it and honestly haven't seen anyone that does. But it's supposed to increase camber by 0.5 which would put you at -1.5.

https://powerflexusa.com/volkswageng...djustable.aspx
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big residual View Post
If you want camber w/o nvh, the options I know of are going to be the fixed 034s or decent coilovers that come w/ plates. You could do IE or Ground Control plates but people report nvh. What I’d recommend is start with a rsb and lowering springs. I did H&R and VWR respectively. That will flatten the car way out and help the rear start rotating. Stop there and see what you like / don’t like. Both of those are in your suspension future if you want to do things off the street. I drove my R for 16 track days like that and the car performed like a champ (more of that was due to a BBK and Stage 2 tune).

The decent coilover path is the real answer to your camber-focused angle. I swapped out my springs and stock dampers for KW Clubsports and the car is now better on the street and track... 2 deg of camber, can go up to 2.8 or so. Obviously, this ignores budget, but that’s the only one it breaks.

The other thing I’d throw out on springs—MSS. The VWRs weren’t great on the street after a year. Super crashy on hard streets, even in DCC comfort. MSS’ kits are better suited for the mixed mission. I have them on another MQB car and have been very happy. They cost a lot more than VWR or H&R though. But MSS plus the 034 fixed camber plates could work as the best sub-KW suspension upgrade in terms of performance.
Thanks, big residual. These opinions are the kinds of advice I'm looking for. Those KWs are very nice, but out of the budget. I looked at ST XTAs (had them on a prior car) but see that the camber adjustment doesn't really work unless you open up the strut tower hole, which I'm not going to do. I wonder if the VWRs became crashy after a while because the dampers were worn? In any case, appreciate the feedback.
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyMD View Post
Other option for slightly increased camber is Powerflex camber adjustable bushing. No experience with it and honestly haven't seen anyone that does. But it's supposed to increase camber by 0.5 which would put you at -1.5.

https://powerflexusa.com/volkswageng...djustable.aspx
Saw this in another post recently. Great find. Thanks!
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckable View Post
Thanks, big residual. These opinions are the kinds of advice I'm looking for. Those KWs are very nice, but out of the budget. I looked at ST XTAs (had them on a prior car) but see that the camber adjustment doesn't really work unless you open up the strut tower hole, which I'm not going to do. I wonder if the VWRs became crashy after a while because the dampers were worn? In any case, appreciate the feedback.

Not sure about the dampers. What I experienced was a reasonably stiff but hard ride in Race which was fine for the track. In Comfort, it was bouncy or crash as all get out—going over a highway section with expansion joints was laughable or just annoying. It could have been dampers or just the linear rate of the VWRs not holding up over time... or maybe they were meant to look good more than perform great over time.

Someone else jogged my mind too—Superpro make some lower control arms that add camber and caster. They’re 600 or 800 iirc, so not cheap but cool kit. I tried to put them on my RS3 but the additional caster won’t fit in to its geometry.
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Old 03-22-2018, 03:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big residual View Post
Not sure about the dampers. What I experienced was a reasonably stiff but hard ride in Race which was fine for the track. In Comfort, it was bouncy or crash as all get out—going over a highway section with expansion joints was laughable or just annoying. It could have been dampers or just the linear rate of the VWRs not holding up over time... or maybe they were meant to look good more than perform great over time.

Someone else jogged my mind too—Superpro make some lower control arms that add camber and caster. They’re 600 or 800 iirc, so not cheap but cool kit. I tried to put them on my RS3 but the additional caster won’t fit in to its geometry.
Thanks again, big residual. I've looked into these arms as well. Very pretty, and pretty pricey for 0.5 degrees of camber. But very nice parts.
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Old 03-22-2018, 03:33 PM   #12
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Look at first page of my build thread for links to some of my projects.
I have DCC shocks with Eibach Prokit Springs. Eibach front and rear sway bars with 034 end links. To save some money you could do rear sway bar only as front is a bigger project and requires alignment, but for tracking might be needed.
Supaloy LCA is expensive but I recommend you replace the bushings in OE arms as they will wear early. ECS and I think Supaloy sell replacement bushings. I think this is a must if you lower. OE LCA bushings are almost designed to fail as they have voids.

034 Motorsports makes some good stuff so if you just went with their complete set up you would be good. They now have springs similar to Eibach Pro Kit and some nice sway bars with well designed mounts that are greaseable.
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Old 03-22-2018, 04:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman GTI View Post
Look at first page of my build thread for links to some of my projects.
I have DCC shocks with Eibach Prokit Springs. Eibach front and rear sway bars with 034 end links. To save some money you could do rear sway bar only as front is a bigger project and requires alignment, but for tracking might be needed.
Supaloy LCA is expensive but I recommend you replace the bushings in OE arms as they will wear early. ECS and I think Supaloy sell replacement bushings. I think this is a must if you lower. OE LCA bushings are almost designed to fail as they have voids.

034 Motorsports makes some good stuff so if you just went with their complete set up you would be good. They now have springs similar to Eibach Pro Kit and some nice sway bars with well designed mounts that are greaseable.

Thanks, Sandman! Yes I was going to do a 034 Motorsports rear sway bar with whatever setup I ultimately go with. I like their greasable bushings. Appreciate the tip on the front arm bushings. Maybe go with the adjustable camber versions.

Right now ST has their rebate going on. I know that they’re not “high end” but the non adjustable model is only about $650 after rebate now. Don’t think I could get springs and dampers for that price.

How do you like the Eibachs?


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Old 03-22-2018, 04:32 PM   #14
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Goldilocks Suspension Set-up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckable View Post
Thanks, Sandman! Yes I was going to do a 034 Motorsports rear sway bar with whatever setup I ultimately go with. I like their greasable bushings. Appreciate the tip on the front arm bushings. Maybe go with the adjustable camber versions.

Right now ST has their rebate going on. I know that they’re not “high end” but the non adjustable model is only about $650 after rebate now. Don’t think I could get springs and dampers for that price.

How do you like the Eibachs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Link to my early thoughts below.
Stoll like them. Which is best is a question for debate. I feel Eibach are at the top as there is a reason they have been making them so long.

I also like that on my German designed car I still have German designed springs.

Sandman GTI MK7 PP DCC Lighting Pkg - The Journey begins!
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...9&share_type=t

https://youtu.be/zoqk5LQQ9EU

https://youtu.be/Z2qK0cbdgNM

https://youtu.be/6ZMuMvpgKFs

https://youtu.be/aLiX_J-O1Cs

https://youtu.be/APHQWpvgvNM

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Last edited by sandmangti; 03-22-2018 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 03-22-2018, 06:45 PM   #15
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Thanks, Sandman. I'll definitely check out your setup.
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