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Exactly what setting to shut off engine?

Mk7Will

Ready to race!
Location
Temecula
Try parking with no accessories on such as your ac. The start stop feature on your car works with a lot variables to make sure you are not drawing too
many amps for the feature to work.
 

kevinkar

Drag Racing Champion
Location
United States
I imagine if the OP looked, he'd find in the manual that this is nothing more than part of the stop-start mechanism
Oooh. My first "RTFM" here in this forum. Thanks! You should know I did read the manual and I have yet to find where it says the engine WILL shut off when simply placing the shift lever into Park. In fact, shifting into Park is only step 3 of the "Stopping the engine" procedure and step 5 is press the Start/Stop button. So as best I can tell it shouldn't shut off unless I press the button but it does some time.

OP, if you don't want to invest $200 in your $40,000 car to have the opportunity to know what's going on then just take it to a dealer.
Not really the point here but it's definitely cheaper to ask if someone knows the answer first.

This is clearly a problem with expectations.
That's only partially true. I expect a car to work *normally* and not do one thing one day and another thing the next day when I didn't do anything different. In my case, different days bring different outcomes which is not how a car should normally work.

The OP believes that the car divines when you want to shut the engine off and when you just want to put it in park.
That is not what I said. I said it's doing what it wants when it wants to and I'm trying to understand what that is. It should not necessarily shut the engine off if I put it in Park. However.....

The car believes that you've stopped for a light and has activated start/stop.
Perhaps this is what's happening. I will experiment by stopping in my parking spot and see if it shuts off before I put it in Park (though it shouldn't if I'm in Race.) If so, it's the driving stop/start function. If it stays on but goes off when moving to Park, that's different.

Try parking with no accessories on such as your ac. The start stop feature on your car works with a lot variables to make sure you are not drawing too many amps for the feature to work.
Yes, this is part of the confusion here. I drive from work to home with only the radio on so should not be drawing too many amps (partly why I asked in the other thread about a voltmeter) and the regular driving around start/stop should work normally. All the criteria in the manual are being met as far as I can tell and the only one I can't check while driving is the battery voltage (no voltmeter readout!)

Well, I'll just keep driving and see how it goes. Still, this seems to have more complexity to it than there should be. Just trying to get that all worked out.

Thanks
 

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
I expect a car to work *normally* and not do one thing one day and another thing the next day when I didn't do anything different. In my case, different days bring different outcomes which is not how a car should normally work.

But that's EXACTLY how start/stop works on a car with a normal 12v battery under the hood. And that was my ENTIRE point on RTFM: you were looking at putting the car into park and getting out of the car and somehow it divines that you're leaving the car. We were pointing out that it's no doubt somewhere else in TFM, part of the start/stop mechanism--and the manual should explain, in great detail, how the start/stop mechanism works, including the conditions under which it won't work.

In the case of a car with a normal 12v battery under the hood and a start/stop mechanism in place, those "different outcomes" are, in fact, the car working normally.

Even the Prius with its big honking traction battery has situations where the engine will be running while the car is stopped at a light or in park or whatever.
 
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admiralackbar

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Montreal, QC
In reality, there probably is a scenario where - if in stop/start - the car has figured that you actually want to shut down (opening the door?) and actually turns the car off but I'm not sure that I'd trust that.

Exactly what is happening, he/she should also be getting a message on the dash about the lights shutting off in 30 minutes when you don't shut down the car properly eg. the car is in in Park, start/stop is activated and a door opens.

I for one am happy start/stop is designed not to stop all the time and keep the heater going when it is -30. Design working as intended.

You shut the car down by pressing the stop button. That's it.

Doesn't this car have a coolant pump that runs when the car is shut down anyway? I always let it idle a bit after a long highway run but I think that is just an old habit I have, unnecessary on these cars.
 

kevinkar

Drag Racing Champion
Location
United States
I expect a car to work *normally* and not do one thing one day and another thing the next day when I didn't do anything different. In my case, different days bring different outcomes which is not how a car should normally work.

But that's EXACTLY how start/stop works on a car with a normal 12v battery under the hood. And that was my ENTIRE point on RTFM: you were looking at putting the car into park and getting out of the car and somehow it divines that you're leaving the car. We were pointing out that it's no doubt somewhere else in TFM, part of the start/stop mechanism--and the manual should explain, in great detail, how the start/stop mechanism works, including the conditions under which it won't work.
You're OK with a car doing something different with identical criteria but I'm not. Two identical trips with two different outcomes is not EXACTLY how a car should work and I'd like to understand the reasons it's doing this. Apparently the car is very specific about one or more of the criteria and it's not something obvious which is determining what's going on.

The manual does describe some of this but not in as great a detail as you think; there are only two sections I can find that address start/stop and not one of them says anything about the engine shutting off when moving to Park. As far as I can tell, it should not turn off when moving to Park.
 

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
You're OK with a car doing something different with identical criteria but I'm not. Two identical trips with two different outcomes is not EXACTLY how a car should work

One trip at below freezing temps and another trip at the height of summer--those are not "identical" trips no matter how hard you want them to be.

At least, not to the stop/start mechanism they're not.


and I'd like to understand the reasons it's doing this.

See above. Different conditions generate different outcomes.


Apparently the car is very specific about one or more of the criteria and it's not something obvious which is determining what's going on.

If VW does not document this to the end user, shame on VW.

Nonetheless, it is what's happening.

As they put mild hybrid stuff into future generations and we're not worrying about the SOC of a small 12v battery, some of these differences will go away. But you'll still have the engine running in the depths of a harsh winter in order to provide heat, whereas it wouldn't be running on a spring day.

You will still see differences thanks to the stop/start mechanism.

The manual does describe some of this but not in as great a detail as you think; there are only two sections I can find that address start/stop and not one of them says anything about the engine shutting off when moving to Park. As far as I can tell, it should not turn off when moving to Park.

Shame on VW, then.

But frankly, I can easily see the system shutting the engine down when you put it into Park. If the 12v battery is fully charged and the climate control system doesn't need to run much if at all, then your putting it into Park is a clear signal that We Will Be Here For Awhile. It's sort of like sitting at a traffic light waiting for the signal to turn, but with a clearer signal that we're not moving soon at all.

So I can see it shutting the *engine* down, but the *system* is still on and in a state of readiness. (In fact, in the Prius they have a light that tells you when everything's good to go--it's called Ready. The system is ready, go ahead and drive.) As has been pointed out, it's up to YOU, the pilot in command, to shut the *system* down.

The system is not the engine. That's old school. Old school was different:
Engine off? Great, we're definitely not going anywhere. (Not so anymore, not with stop/start.) Oh, let me get that key out of the ignition... (Not so anymore, not with Kessy.)

I think the technology has surpassed your willingness to accept it. The engine may not be running, but the car is ready to drive away as you take your foot off the pedal. Or as soon as you take it out of Park. All without the engine running.

Engine off does not mean system off. Does not mean that you can get out of the car and go inside. You, the pilot, must *actively* turn the system Off.

As this is VW's first foray into this, I can imagine they missed it in the user's guide. They took the 2017 owner's manual and "adapted" it for 2018, and the documentation people probably never got the full engineering message on what's different about the stop/start mechanism.

Have you looked at the relevant section of the Know Your VW web site? They have a video. I know, it's more RTFM. So be it.

Plus, were I you, I'd be bugging my dealer service department for any documentation *they* have on all of this.
 

kevinkar

Drag Racing Champion
Location
United States
One trip at below freezing temps and another trip at the height of summer--those are not "identical" trips no matter how hard you want them to be.
This is not what's happening here in sunny Southern California - I assure you my two reference trips were identical. One was not sunny and the other freezing.

Nonetheless, it is what's happening.
Pretty much what I've been saying but I want to know why so *I* can adapt to it and make the car do what *I* want it to. Yes, if this is scattershot and esoteric functionality, shame on VW for not being more precise in the manual. I shouldn't have to try to understand it. It should just work and work consistently.

But frankly, I can easily see the system shutting the engine down when you put it into Park. If the 12v battery is fully charged and the climate control system doesn't need to run much if at all, then your putting it into Park is a clear signal that We Will Be Here For Awhile.
So earlier you kind of called me out for appearing to expect the car to divine what I wanted which you indicated was somewhat foolhardy on my part but here you are using that very idea to explain what the car is doing! So if we pretend for a second the car is not doing that but rather following a logic diagram of cause and effect, I'm basically trying to discern the causes that arrive at an effect and KNOW what to expect. Sadly the manual does not do a good job of providing that information and, based on my reading of it, the car does not do what I expect in spite of the manual's verbiage.

The system is not the engine. That's old school. Old school was different....
I just got out of a C6 Corvette that did not shut off completely unless you put it in Reverse. Otherwise the system remained charged until the battery was depleted. I'm well aware of this paradigm.

I think the technology has surpassed your willingness to accept it.
Not correct. I'm an aerospace engineer and well aware of how all forms of technology work. But thanks for assuming I'm unable to adapt to new technology.

Engine off does not mean system off. Does not mean that you can get out of the car and go inside. You, the pilot, must *actively* turn the system Off.
That's only part of the equation here. One - the car sometimes shuts the engine off when shifting into Park and other times not when I can see no valid reason that should happen at all. Two - the start/stop function sometimes works and sometimes does not even though the conditions are the same in each trip (again, not sunny/freezing.) And I never suggested the car was ever completely off and I could simply walk away from it without pressing the Start/Stop button. The original premise was "Hey, the engine shut off when shifting into Park but now does not. How do I do that again?" but now it happens or doesn't happen and there's no clear reason why. Why my frustration at that seems to annoy you I do not understand.

Have you looked at the relevant section of the Know Your VW web site? They have a video. I know, it's more RTFM. So be it.

Plus, were I you, I'd be bugging my dealer service department for any documentation *they* have on all of this.
I have not yet looked at any VW videos but will. At some point I'll have to bring it in and ask though I don't have high hopes anyone at a dealer or dealer service center will know any more than anyone else given how lame most dealers are these days.
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
... And I never suggested the car was ever completely off and I could simply walk away from it without pressing the Start/Stop button. The original premise was "Hey, the engine shut off when shifting into Park but now does not. How do I do that again?" but now it happens or doesn't happen and there's no clear reason why. ....

Actually, that is exactly how I (and I assume most everyone here) read your initial post when you said "So the first week I have had my 2018 R it was set right - stop the car, put it in Park and the engine shuts off. I get out, lock it and go about my day."

Sounds to me like you just got out and walked away.

Let's stop beating a dead horse. I feel your frustration that the car seemingly does different things at different times. I think your issue is related to start/stop and that system has so many variables that even minor differences can have an impact on how the system functions.
 

Dark Violet R

Ready to race!
Location
Ontario, Canada
Yeah, I'll have to try this. Thanks. Seems the electronics are pretty convoluted in certain circumstances and there's no full logic tree or table to follow to set it all up with the right outcome. Have to figure it out on your own. I'll see if setting it this way makes this function return.

Kevin,
My car did the same thing a few times. It only shuts off when i put it in park if my front sensors are going off i.e. in my garage and the car senses the garbage bags close to the bumper. This is the only time it shuts when I put it in park.
 

kevinkar

Drag Racing Champion
Location
United States
My car did the same thing a few times. It only shuts off when i put it in park if my front sensors are going off i.e. in my garage and the car senses the garbage bags close to the bumper. This is the only time it shuts when I put it in park.
Mine does it randomly in the garage, at the parking lot at work, on the driveway at home, etc. and sometimes it doesn't! No real rhyme or reason which is why it's so frustrating. But thanks for the data points.
 

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
And I never suggested the car was ever completely off and I could simply walk away from it without pressing the Start/Stop button.

No?

From your very first post that started this thread:

So the first week I have had my 2018 R it was set right - stop the car, put it in Park and the engine shuts off. I get out, lock it and go about my day. Today, after driving around with the wife for a while, it no longer does that and I must press the Start/Stop button to turn off the engine.

So which is it?
 

The Fed

Old Guys Rule
Location
Florida
Ouch. I'm so humiliated. Thank you for putting me in my place.

Too bad there are forum rules otherwise my First Amendment rights would not currently be infringed.

Not following. You wrote whatever you wanted. So did everyone else. Am I missing something, or are your rights more than anyone else's? It's not like anyone called you something nasty. If your feelings are that easily hurt, this is not the forum for you.
 

kevinkar

Drag Racing Champion
Location
United States
No? From your very first post that started this thread: So which is it?
It's both. The car is not being consistent. I'm attempting to get to the bottom of it. So it's OK for the car to be inconsistent but I can't?

Not following. You wrote whatever you wanted. So did everyone else. Am I missing something, or are your rights more than anyone else's? It's not like anyone called you something nasty. If your feelings are that easily hurt, this is not the forum for you.
Snarky replies like yours don't help. Instead of berating the person who is simply asking questions and trying to have a positive discussion, maybe your replies should be a bit more helpful. Instead your only two replies implied I was cheap and stupid. So forum rules require I be civil and can't appropriately reply. Suffice it to say, if you don't have any helpful solutions perhaps you should be the one moving along.
 
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