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Old 07-17-2018, 01:19 AM   #69
psychonosspaz
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It's really dealership specific and how much they want to help you out during the process....a reason I drive an hour to get any work done on my car, as my local VW shop sucks ass
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Old 07-17-2018, 01:21 AM   #70
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As far as I'm aware BMW is the only manufacturer able to detect JB4, as there are boost sensors located within the turbo itself that read and store the actual pressure going through it. Fortunately VW hasn't implemented such a system on the EA888, so any data from the ECU would have to be circumstantial if they wanted to deny warranty.
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Old 07-17-2018, 01:34 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Sparky589 View Post
As far as I'm aware BMW is the only manufacturer able to detect JB4, as there are boost sensors located within the turbo itself the read and store the actual pressure going through it. Fortunately VW hasn't implemented such a system on the EA888, so any data from the ECU would have to be circumstantial if they wanted to deny warranty.
My man, at least some one gets it.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:39 AM   #72
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How about the BG MOA oil additive product?
https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/engine/bg-moa/

My dealership offered it to me from my first oil change and I've been on it ever since.
Supposedly bg moa comes with their own power train warranty as well
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:47 AM   #73
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Didn't know that, but I love and have supported BG products here. I use the MOA and the 44k (fuel additive). My shop uses these BG products when we do "tune ups" for cars. Mainly when we replace the air filter and spark plugs (and distibuter cap / rotor and spark plug wires for older cars).
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:06 PM   #74
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I love all these wives casually driving around with 350WHP hatchbacks, no biggie, the usual.
Yes, I would love to buy a 240i off of one these wives.
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:19 PM   #75
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No they wont.. .stop talking out of your ass.

If you understand how the JB4 works, the PCM doesnt record parameters changed. There is a reason the JB4 is labeled "Undetectable".
Um yeah, it does, fuel trim is definitely datalogged. Ask the guys at JB4 if they will guarantee it is undetectable and won't void your warranty, they 100% won't.
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:47 PM   #76
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Um yeah, it does, fuel trim is definitely datalogged. Ask the guys at JB4 if they will guarantee it is undetectable and won't void your warranty, they 100% won't.
From their terms and conditions. CAPS are theirs, bolding is mine.

WITHOUT LIMITATION TO THE FORGOING: (I) PURCHASER EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT USE OF THE PRODUCT MAY VOID ANY OR ALL WARRANTIES APPLICABLE TO ANY VEHICLE IN WHICH A PRODUCT IS INSTALLED AND PURCHASER AGREES TO RELEASE, INDEMNIFY AND TO HOLD SELLER HARMLESS FROM ANY CLAIMS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY RELATED TO OR ARISING OUT OF ANY VOIDED WARRANTIES RELATED TO OUR ARISING OUT OF USE OF A PRODUCT; (II) PURCHASER EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT PRODUCTS MAY CAUSE DAMAGE TO ANY VEHICLE IN WHICH SUCH PRODUCTS ARE INSTALLED AND PURCHASER AGREES TO RELEASE, INDEMNIFY AND TO HOLD SELLER HARMLESS FROM ANY CLAIMS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY RELATED TO OR ARISING OUT OF ANY DAMAGE TO A VEHICLE ALLEGEDLY CAUSED BY A PRODUCT; AND, (III) PURCHASER EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGES AND HEREBY AGREES THAT PURCHASER IS FAMILIAR WITH AND AGREES TO COMPLY WITH ANY LAWS, RULES OR REGULATIONS RELATED TO PRODUCTS ("APPLICABLE LAWS") AND PURCHASER AGREES TO RELEASE, INDEMNIFY AND TO HOLD SELLER HARMLESS FROM ANY CLAIMS RELATED TO OR ARISING OUT OF ANY ALLEGATION THAT PURCHASER FAILED TO COMPLY WITH APPLICABLE LAWS.

and from their GTI install instructions. Bolding is mine.

This part may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event. Competition-only motor vehicles may not be driven to a racing event on a public highway and must be transported on a trailer or other carrier. USE OF THIS PART IN ANY OTHER VEHICLE MAY SUBJECT YOU TO FINES AND PENALTIES FOR VIOLATION OF FEDERAL AND/OR STATE LAW, WILL
VOID YOUR WARRANTY FROM BURGER MOTORSPORTS INC, AND CAN VOID
YOUR VEHICLE'S WARRANTY.
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:26 PM   #77
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Um yeah, it does, fuel trim is definitely datalogged. Ask the guys at JB4 if they will guarantee it is undetectable and won't void your warranty, they 100% won't.
Of course they're not going to say it's 100% undetectable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CB1111 View Post
From their terms and conditions. CAPS are theirs, bolding is mine.

WITHOUT LIMITATION TO THE FORGOING: (I) PURCHASER EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT USE OF THE PRODUCT MAY VOID ANY OR ALL WARRANTIES APPLICABLE TO ANY VEHICLE IN WHICH A PRODUCT IS INSTALLED AND PURCHASER AGREES TO RELEASE, INDEMNIFY AND TO HOLD SELLER HARMLESS FROM ANY CLAIMS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY RELATED TO OR ARISING OUT OF ANY VOIDED WARRANTIES RELATED TO OUR ARISING OUT OF USE OF A PRODUCT; (II) PURCHASER EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGES THAT PRODUCTS MAY CAUSE DAMAGE TO ANY VEHICLE IN WHICH SUCH PRODUCTS ARE INSTALLED AND PURCHASER AGREES TO RELEASE, INDEMNIFY AND TO HOLD SELLER HARMLESS FROM ANY CLAIMS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY RELATED TO OR ARISING OUT OF ANY DAMAGE TO A VEHICLE ALLEGEDLY CAUSED BY A PRODUCT; AND, (III) PURCHASER EXPRESSLY ACKNOWLEDGES AND HEREBY AGREES THAT PURCHASER IS FAMILIAR WITH AND AGREES TO COMPLY WITH ANY LAWS, RULES OR REGULATIONS RELATED TO PRODUCTS ("APPLICABLE LAWS") AND PURCHASER AGREES TO RELEASE, INDEMNIFY AND TO HOLD SELLER HARMLESS FROM ANY CLAIMS RELATED TO OR ARISING OUT OF ANY ALLEGATION THAT PURCHASER FAILED TO COMPLY WITH APPLICABLE LAWS.

and from their GTI install instructions. Bolding is mine.

This part may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event. Competition-only motor vehicles may not be driven to a racing event on a public highway and must be transported on a trailer or other carrier. USE OF THIS PART IN ANY OTHER VEHICLE MAY SUBJECT YOU TO FINES AND PENALTIES FOR VIOLATION OF FEDERAL AND/OR STATE LAW, WILL
VOID YOUR WARRANTY FROM BURGER MOTORSPORTS INC, AND CAN VOID
YOUR VEHICLE'S WARRANTY.
I'm sure many other aftermarket parts have the same tos saying it may void warranty and you release liability from the company if your car is damaged using this part. etc
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:33 PM   #78
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Of course they're not going to say it's 100% undetectable.



I'm sure many other aftermarket parts have the same tos saying it may void warranty and you release liability from the company if your car is damaged using this part. etc
Of course they do. It's so their asses are covered in case their products cause any kind of damage to our cars.
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:43 PM   #79
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Tuning the car isn't illegal so I doubt there would be any actual consequences beyond speeding tickets (or impounding if you were getting cray) for using the JB4 on the road.

It's not like the Cop would catch you going fast and then make you open to hood to see if you had a piggyback hooked up.

As far as trying to make a Warranty claim (powertrain) while hiding that you've altered the vehicles performance is definitely intent to defraud. I can't imagine the Law getting involved there either though because they would probably just deny your claim if they somehow discovered the piggyback. You'd have to have been a real a-hole for them to call the cops on you too.
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Old 07-18-2018, 04:31 AM   #80
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Tuning the car isn't illegal so I doubt there would be any actual consequences beyond speeding tickets (or impounding if you were getting cray) for using the JB4 on the road.

Tuning a car is illegal because it violates the EPA certification of the vehicle.


I am not saying the car pollutes more (well, it likely may, but besides the point), the fact is that the EPA hasn't tested and certified the JB piggyback (or other means of tuning) means that YOU are in violation of the EPA Clean Air Act: "The Clean Air Act requires new engines and equipment sold or distributed in the United States to be certified to meet EPA-established emissions requirements to protect public health and the environment from air pollution. The Act and its implementing regulations also contain various requirements concerning testing, reporting, recordkeeping, warranty, labeling, tampering, defeat devices, and vehicle and engine maintenance and alterations. EPA enforces the vehicle and engine provisions of Title II of the Clean Air Act and regulations at 40 C. F. R. Parts 85, 86, 88 through 94, 600, and 1033 through 1068."


https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/clea...se-resolutions



I am not judging anyone who mods their car. I did it, and I plan on continuing to modify my cars. But, you need to understand that what you are doing is technically and actually illegal, even though there is 0.03% chance you'd ever be prosecuted.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:37 PM   #81
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As Robert Heinlein famously said, "they're aint no such thing as a free lunch," or TANSTAAFL. Hence the whole "pay to play" meme about modding. It's fun, it can provide massive bang for the buck in terms of performance, and it's cheap enough to be within reach of many car enthusiasts.

This seemingly free or super cheap enhancement comes at a price that though often hidden (or willfully ignored) is still there. No, the cops aren't going to knock down your garage door because you have an ECU flash or a piggyback, but pretty much every use of these things from the get-go violates not just a variety of regulations or terms of services, but even the terms of service of the people selling you the products or services you are using.

Yeah, when they say "only for use in racing vehicles on race tracks" or something to that effect, we see the line delivered with a wink and a nudge, but the company selling the stuff? They are dead serious, lawyer in a suit serious. Something screws up your car? You are, technically, SOL, even if companies might sometimes accommodate you. The system is rigged to make it very hard for you to realize claims though, as if a company routinely paid out compensation (repairs, replacements, whatever) for products that were being used, in nearly all cases, in violation of their own terms of service, and additionally were being used in ways that nearly always violate some subset of state, local, or federal regulations in some way, they'd end up in hot water.

Just as in all sorts of transactions, the EULA or TOS is a document that pretty much no one reads, but which often bites you in the ass. Whether it's online games (Star Citizen for example) or credit cards, or in this case car parts, those documents are increasingly being enforced in court (things like arbitration clauses for example, that pretty much guarantee you won't ever be able to collect anything from the company involved). We know that it's unreasonable to expect average people to read and understand the deliberately obtuse language of these things, but that makes no difference to the system, which is set up for and by and in the interests of corporations and lawyers anyhow.

tl;dr, modding can be a fun and often quite affordable hobby, or nearly a full-time obsession that eats money and time, but either way, TANSTAAFL. The real price for a tune or piggyback isn't the few hundred clams you shell out, it's the abdication of control and power to someone else. Usually, this never comes into play, but it's real nonetheless.
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Old 07-18-2018, 01:36 PM   #82
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Wombat,


props for that post.


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Old 07-18-2018, 02:05 PM   #83
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Basically everyone should just read, regardless of your mods that you preform yourself, you except full responsibility of what may happen. Companies try to make a good product to protect their reputation, but if the product destroys your car or leads to undesirable side effects, they are not in the business of shelling out lots of money to fix cars, hence why they have disclaimers.

Please use responsibly.
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Old 07-18-2018, 02:10 PM   #84
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JB4 is undetectable if removed prior to bringing the vehicle to the dealership.

I've tested this personally.
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Old 07-18-2018, 02:24 PM   #85
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Personal responsibility is a non-existent concept to many people.
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