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Old 05-05-2018, 02:40 PM   #35
admiralackbar
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Which part of press the stop button to shut off the car completely are you having an issue with?

My engine sometimes stops when I put in Park sometimes not. From the first day. There is no 'right' setup from the factory that has somehow changed. I press the stop button and I get out of the car and go on with my life.

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aerospace engineer
Nevermind.
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Old 05-05-2018, 02:54 PM   #36
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space shuttle O-rings?

"Gee, I wonder why it did that."
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Old 05-05-2018, 03:13 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by adam1991 View Post
One trip at below freezing temps and another trip at the height of summer--those are not "identical" trips no matter how hard you want them to be.

At least, not to the stop/start mechanism they're not.




See above. Different conditions generate different outcomes.




If VW does not document this to the end user, shame on VW.

Nonetheless, it is what's happening.

As they put mild hybrid stuff into future generations and we're not worrying about the SOC of a small 12v battery, some of these differences will go away. But you'll still have the engine running in the depths of a harsh winter in order to provide heat, whereas it wouldn't be running on a spring day.

You will still see differences thanks to the stop/start mechanism.



Shame on VW, then.

But frankly, I can easily see the system shutting the engine down when you put it into Park. If the 12v battery is fully charged and the climate control system doesn't need to run much if at all, then your putting it into Park is a clear signal that We Will Be Here For Awhile. It's sort of like sitting at a traffic light waiting for the signal to turn, but with a clearer signal that we're not moving soon at all.

So I can see it shutting the *engine* down, but the *system* is still on and in a state of readiness. (In fact, in the Prius they have a light that tells you when everything's good to go--it's called Ready. The system is ready, go ahead and drive.) As has been pointed out, it's up to YOU, the pilot in command, to shut the *system* down.

The system is not the engine. That's old school. Old school was different:
Engine off? Great, we're definitely not going anywhere. (Not so anymore, not with stop/start.) Oh, let me get that key out of the ignition... (Not so anymore, not with Kessy.)

I think the technology has surpassed your willingness to accept it. The engine may not be running, but the car is ready to drive away as you take your foot off the pedal. Or as soon as you take it out of Park. All without the engine running.

Engine off does not mean system off. Does not mean that you can get out of the car and go inside. You, the pilot, must *actively* turn the system Off.

As this is VW's first foray into this, I can imagine they missed it in the user's guide. They took the 2017 owner's manual and "adapted" it for 2018, and the documentation people probably never got the full engineering message on what's different about the stop/start mechanism.

Have you looked at the relevant section of the Know Your VW web site? They have a video. I know, it's more RTFM. So be it.

Plus, were I you, I'd be bugging my dealer service department for any documentation *they* have on all of this.
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Originally Posted by kevinkar View Post
This is not what's happening here in sunny Southern California - I assure you my two reference trips were identical. One was not sunny and the other freezing.


Pretty much what I've been saying but I want to know why so *I* can adapt to it and make the car do what *I* want it to. Yes, if this is scattershot and esoteric functionality, shame on VW for not being more precise in the manual. I shouldn't have to try to understand it. It should just work and work consistently.


So earlier you kind of called me out for appearing to expect the car to divine what I wanted which you indicated was somewhat foolhardy on my part but here you are using that very idea to explain what the car is doing! So if we pretend for a second the car is not doing that but rather following a logic diagram of cause and effect, I'm basically trying to discern the causes that arrive at an effect and KNOW what to expect. Sadly the manual does not do a good job of providing that information and, based on my reading of it, the car does not do what I expect in spite of the manual's verbiage.


I just got out of a C6 Corvette that did not shut off completely unless you put it in Reverse. Otherwise the system remained charged until the battery was depleted. I'm well aware of this paradigm.


Not correct. I'm an aerospace engineer and well aware of how all forms of technology work. But thanks for assuming I'm unable to adapt to new technology.


That's only part of the equation here. One - the car sometimes shuts the engine off when shifting into Park and other times not when I can see no valid reason that should happen at all. Two - the start/stop function sometimes works and sometimes does not even though the conditions are the same in each trip (again, not sunny/freezing.) And I never suggested the car was ever completely off and I could simply walk away from it without pressing the Start/Stop button. The original premise was "Hey, the engine shut off when shifting into Park but now does not. How do I do that again?" but now it happens or doesn't happen and there's no clear reason why. Why my frustration at that seems to annoy you I do not understand.


I have not yet looked at any VW videos but will. At some point I'll have to bring it in and ask though I don't have high hopes anyone at a dealer or dealer service center will know any more than anyone else given how lame most dealers are these days.
No two trips are identical nor can the manual discuss every possible variant. Did you catch the same light for the exact same time? Was the temp exactly alike?

The bottom line is very simple - is there any reference in the manual that says "put your car into park and walk away - the car will always shut down completely. No need to press the ignition button"?

No? Gee, then maybe you shouldn't expect that.
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Old 05-05-2018, 03:47 PM   #38
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...What made you think the car can read your mind?
He recently saw a rerun of "Firefox" and thought to himself (or to the car) "If Clint Eastwood can control a plane while thinking in Russian, then I can control this car in German. Aus! AUS!"

The manual tells you how to operate the car. It cannot discuss every unexpected conceiveable possibility.

If this was normal operation then the manual would say "place the car into park, open the door and get out. The car will shut off automatically"

Is this possible in the future? Of course - the Mercedes puts the car into park if it is stopped, foot on brake and the driver's door is opened. It says so in the manual.

VW could easily program this to the car - "put foot on brake, shift into park and open door shuts down car" but that is not how it is programmed.
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Old 05-05-2018, 03:54 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by CB1111 View Post
The bottom line is very simple - is there any reference in the manual that says "put your car into park and walk away - the car will always shut down completely. No need to press the ignition button"?

No? Gee, then maybe you shouldn't expect that.
I would argue quite the reverse, that the manual is VERY specific about how to (a) start the car, and how to (b) stop the car so you can exit it and walk away.

I know my 2017 manual is. And of course, it's chock full of two or three pages of legal warnings before they get to what they want to tell you.

But even weirder is that anyone who has driven any number of years would not be asking himself, "I don't have a physical key in a lock, so how do I do the equivalent of turning the ignition off so I can get out and go inside? Surely it can't be simply putting the car into Park and that's it!"

This reminds me of whomever it was who never read the manual and never knew how Kessy worked with respect to locking the car from the outside--he mistakenly ass-u-me-d that the only way to lock it was to take the remote out of his pocket and hit the button.

The takeaway from this is, apparently it takes MORE than a rocket scientist to own and drive a simple modern day Golf.
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Old 05-05-2018, 03:58 PM   #40
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Between OP's posts and avatar, he's quickly become my least favorite member of this site.


Literally no car are you supposed to up and walk away without pressing off, or turning the key. This car, if the start/stop activates in park, will eventually shut all systems down so dopey people don't just leave the car in a semi-running condition.
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Old 05-05-2018, 04:06 PM   #41
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I would argue quite the reverse, that the manual is VERY specific about how to (a) start the car, and how to (b) stop the car so you can exit it and walk away.

I know my 2017 manual is. And of course, it's chock full of two or three pages of legal warnings before they get to what they want to tell you.

But even weirder is that anyone who has driven any number of years would not be asking himself, "I don't have a physical key in a lock, so how do I do the equivalent of turning the ignition off so I can get out and go inside? Surely it can't be simply putting the car into Park and that's it!"

This reminds me of whomever it was who never read the manual and never knew how Kessy worked with respect to locking the car from the outside--he mistakenly ass-u-me-d that the only way to lock it was to take the remote out of his pocket and hit the button.

The takeaway from this is, apparently it takes MORE than a rocket scientist to own and drive a simple modern day Golf.
We're saying the same thing in different ways.
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:45 PM   #42
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adam1991, CB1111, 71camaro, admiralackbar and The Fed -

Thank you for being helpful and welcoming to this forum. Your insight has been greatly appreciated. I'd be lost without your sound reasoning and judgement. Your kind treatment of a brand new member here is absolutely wonderful and I hope it continues. I can't wait to ask another question so you can reply with your charming and witty retorts.

It's amazing how you keep helping me out even though you don't like me. That's very generous of you to continue responding and I thank you for your continued support.

Looking forward to your next replies!

Or not.
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Old 05-05-2018, 08:25 PM   #43
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We're saying the same thing in different ways.
So we're in violent agreement?

Not the first time...
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Old 05-05-2018, 08:27 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by kevinkar View Post
adam1991, CB1111, 71camaro, admiralackbar and The Fed -

Thank you for being helpful and welcoming to this forum. Your insight has been greatly appreciated. I'd be lost without your sound reasoning and judgement. Your kind treatment of a brand new member here is absolutely wonderful and I hope it continues. I can't wait to ask another question so you can reply with your charming and witty retorts.

It's amazing how you keep helping me out even though you don't like me. That's very generous of you to continue responding and I thank you for your continued support.

Looking forward to your next replies!

Or not.
Sure you are.

Do you continue to insist that the initial behavior you observed, albeit not documented in any way AND against everything you've ever known about how to start and stop a car, is the "right" way?
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:34 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by kevinkar View Post
adam1991, CB1111, 71camaro, admiralackbar and The Fed -

Thank you for being helpful and welcoming to this forum. Your insight has been greatly appreciated. I'd be lost without your sound reasoning and judgement. Your kind treatment of a brand new member here is absolutely wonderful and I hope it continues. I can't wait to ask another question so you can reply with your charming and witty retorts.

It's amazing how you keep helping me out even though you don't like me. That's very generous of you to continue responding and I thank you for your continued support.

Looking forward to your next replies!

Or not.
Welcome to the forum.

Just because we're right and you were a bit confused doesn't mean we don't like you.

You've been here long enough to know that at least three of the people you cited often have dissenting opinions on a variety of topics.

Up until now, I never even looked if you were a new member and - quite frankly - it makes no difference.
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:45 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkar View Post
adam1991, CB1111, 71camaro, admiralackbar and The Fed -

Thank you for being helpful and welcoming to this forum. Your insight has been greatly appreciated. I'd be lost without your sound reasoning and judgement. Your kind treatment of a brand new member here is absolutely wonderful and I hope it continues. I can't wait to ask another question so you can reply with your charming and witty retorts.

It's amazing how you keep helping me out even though you don't like me. That's very generous of you to continue responding and I thank you for your continued support.

Looking forward to your next replies!

Or not.
Which part of press the stop button to shut off the car completely are you having an issue with?
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:52 PM   #47
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And here are some relevant sections from the manual, don't know what is not clear once again.




Last edited by admiralackbar; 05-06-2018 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:14 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by kevinkar View Post
Oooh. My first "RTFM" here in this forum. Thanks!
You're welcome.


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Originally Posted by kevinkar View Post
You should know I did read the manual and I have yet to find where it says the engine WILL shut off when simply placing the shift lever into Park.
I just thought this was an appropriate place for this.

So a rocket scientist--er, excuse me, "aerospace engineer"--can't read the owner's manual?
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Old 05-06-2018, 12:17 AM   #49
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Which part of press the stop button to shut off the car completely are you having an issue with?
Reread the thread - that's not the question. Original issue is the car shuts off the engine when shifting into Park SOMETIMES. I've never had a car shut the engine off when shifting to Park EVER. Why sometimes and other times not (or AT ALL for that matter?) This is a functionality NOT stated in the manual. You tell me what's going on and we can move on. Saying RTFM when the manual does not say anything about this particular feature does not help.

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So a rocket scientist--er, excuse me, "aerospace engineer"--can't read the owner's manual?
You are an internet bully and are getting your rocks off by statements such as this. If you don't want to participate in a conversation, please block/ignore me. I read the manual. It does NOT say the engine shuts off when shifting to Park. YOU tell me where it says that because you've obviously read the manual and clearly have it memorized.

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Originally Posted by CB1111 View Post
Just because we're right and you were a bit confused doesn't mean we don't like you.
So far you have not proven yourselves to be "right" only that you get off by badgering another forum member. Doesn't really matter if you like or don't like someone. Being snarky with people you don't know is not appropriate nor is it welcome. If you can't help without being smug, why bother replying at all? Why don't YOU just move on and let more helpful people respond?

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You've been here long enough to know that at least three of the people you cited often have dissenting opinions on a variety of topics.
I've been here long enough to know this particular group of members think they know everything and will stop at nothing to beat down a fellow forum member for no reason other than to make yourselves feel superior. Nothing more than a pack of bullies ganging up on someone. Real helpful.

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Up until now, I never even looked if you were a new member and - quite frankly - it makes no difference.
Actually it doesn't matter if I'm a new member or not. Your attitudes towards me have been less than friendly and if I dare disagree with you or, heaven forbid, forget to leave out the step where I pushed the Start/Stop button before exiting the car, you obsess over that omission and continue to badger me because of it.

If you can't help, please move on.
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Old 05-06-2018, 12:54 AM   #50
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I'm an "internet bully" but CB is only "inappropriately snarky"?

CB, you shouldn't take that.

Anyway, Kevin, back to the questions at hand:

* how did you come to believe that the behavior you first observed was "right" and that other behavior was "wrong"?

* For that matter, which is it: do you "stop the car, put it in Park and the engine shuts off. I get out, lock it and go about my day"? Or, as you said later, was it that you "never suggested the car was ever completely off and I could simply walk away from it without pressing the Start/Stop button"?

If we can't help, it's because of complete inconsistency in your story as it moves on and your complete unwillingness--as an engineer, no less--to acknowledge that two trips could be not identical and therefore could trigger different behaviors in the car.
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Old 05-06-2018, 02:35 AM   #51
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Actually it doesn't matter if I'm a new member or not. Your attitudes towards me have been less than friendly and if I dare disagree with you or, heaven forbid, forget to leave out the step where I pushed the Start/Stop button before exiting the car, you obsess over that omission and continue to badger me because of it.

If you can't help, please move on.
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Originally Posted by adam1991 View Post
I'm an "internet bully" but CB is only "inappropriately snarky"?

CB, you shouldn't take that.

Anyway, Kevin, back to the questions at hand:

* how did you come to believe that the behavior you first observed was "right" and that other behavior was "wrong"?

* For that matter, which is it: do you "stop the car, put it in Park and the engine shuts off. I get out, lock it and go about my day"? Or, as you said later, was it that you "never suggested the car was ever completely off and I could simply walk away from it without pressing the Start/Stop button"?

If we can't help, it's because of complete inconsistency in your story as it moves on and your complete unwillingness--as an engineer, no less--to acknowledge that two trips could be not identical and therefore could trigger different behaviors in the car.
Got it. So now there is a third version - where you actually did press the ignition button (as opposed to start/stop on/off) but forgot to tell us.

In this scenario, you stop the car, put it into park (start/stop shuts off the engine) and then you press the ignition button to turn off the car.

Aside from the inconsistent behavior of start/stop because of the many variables, it sounds like your car is working as intended.
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