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brake pads for the track?

donefor

Go Kart Newbie
Location
usa
Cracks or grooves? Big difference there.


Radial cracks. I got grooves once with the HPS pads, then switched to DTC-60 and never had that problem again.



I hated my DTC when I had them. They need TONS of lube on the shims, a very thorough bed in process, and new rotors to try to prevent squealing, but they still end up making some noise. They howled when coming down from higher speeds too. I switched to Porterfield (Pagid) on that car and they were silent in comparison. Far less dusty too, which was nice because my hands didn't get as dirty when swapping wheels.


Haha, each to their own, i loved those things in spite of the noise and dust. Now i have three sets of HB543G.760 and two of HB544S.628 that won't fit on the "new" car... so many things to fix... :(
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
Radial cracks. I got grooves once with the HPS pads, then switched to DTC-60 and never had that problem again.

Haha, each to their own, i loved those things in spite of the noise and dust. Now i have three sets of HB543G.760 and two of HB544S.628 that won't fit on the "new" car... so many things to fix... :(

Yeah, the HPS pads I had wrecked a set of rotors. I went to a stoptech for autocross duty after that and those were fine, albeit the dustier than the Sahara. Couldn't even take valve stem caps off without having to wash my hands after.

That's the truth brother. Each time we hit a limit, there's always something to fix, and always a new limit to be found. The driver is the only cheap thing to fix :p
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
Just in case anyone is interested, I was able to get my rotors cut. They're now 28.5mm, where minimum spec is 27mm, I believe. The car has 25k miles on it, some autocross events, and 2 track days. I expect with better pads, I'll get maybe 10k more miles out of the stock rotors. A better rotor will definitely be next.
 

CDM MK7

Ready to race!
Location
Canada
Just in case anyone is interested, I was able to get my rotors cut. They're now 28.5mm, where minimum spec is 27mm, I believe. The car has 25k miles on it, some autocross events, and 2 track days. I expect with better pads, I'll get maybe 10k more miles out of the stock rotors. A better rotor will definitely be next.

Good to hear. That's actually pretty decent wear for the miles. I need to do the same with my stock rotors which I still have.

I'm Slowly coming to the conclusion that I'm probably going to have to swap the OEM setup back in for the winter months, which is a bummer. Now that I've got both street/track miles on my MX72/4000 T3 setup, these things are not happy outside their temp zone.

I spoke with Endless about the noise and the excessive dust I'm experiencing now (literally insane amounts of dust) and through some pics and discussion back and fourth, we've determined that this is pretty normal for the class of pad. Which I knew, but was really impressed with how quiet and clean they were for the first few months and thought I could get away with it. Honeymoon period is over, I guess. The performance of the MX72 is exceptional and there is ZERO complaints there (especially on track), but you have to really enjoy cleaning wheels and making pedestrians cringe to run these things on street IMO. Will clean up the stock rotors and pads and put them back on in the fall.
 

Lord_Flexington

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Syracuse
Car(s)
15 MK7 GTI LP PP
LOL are you joking? Ferodo makes the worst pads. The OEM pads are better than the ds2500s. material transfer with the 2500's is so bad you have to remove the rotors after every day to clean the material off otherwise the vibrations you get on day 2 is unreal. You couldnt pay me to run them. Worst decision i've made was to try them.

dont waste your money on the ferodo's. you will regret the purchase.

I have no idea what you are going on about. I've been running 2500s for the past year and half. Multiple track days and competitions on a PP GTI.

Not sure what happened with your set but for them to still have life after 6+ track days of hard racing and daily use im pretty pleased with them.

In fact I never have an issue slowing down...unless my psi is off...

I notice yours isn't a PP so i can't speak for NON-pp users but if you have a PP i have yet to find a better track pad than the ds2500 when using the stock calipers/rotors.
 

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
I have no idea what you are going on about. I've been running 2500s for the past year and half. Multiple track days and competitions on a PP GTI.

Not sure what happened with your set but for them to still have life after 6+ track days of hard racing and daily use im pretty pleased with them.

In fact I never have an issue slowing down...unless my psi is off...

I notice yours isn't a PP so i can't speak for NON-pp users but if you have a PP i have yet to find a better track pad than the ds2500 when using the stock calipers/rotors.
Well I have a R soooo. I have 2 track days on the feroddo and I might have 1 more at best it looks like.
 

Lord_Flexington

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Syracuse
Car(s)
15 MK7 GTI LP PP
Well I have a R soooo. I have 2 track days on the feroddo and I might have 1 more at best it looks like.

interesting. I ran those up front and stock rears for over 20k so maybe the R is different/and driving style may matter.

Out of curiosity do you still have XDS acting as normal or things like ESC OFF/Sport?

That's one of the few reasons I can think of for these pads to start going so fast is the computer is applying them when you don't want.
 

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
interesting. I ran those up front and stock rears for over 20k so maybe the R is different/and driving style may matter.

Out of curiosity do you still have XDS acting as normal or things like ESC OFF/Sport?

That's one of the few reasons I can think of for these pads to start going so fast is the computer is applying them when you don't want.

No idea what that means. I don't turn any of the kids off as traction control or abs rarely kick on.

I've only ever used the pads on track at road America which is extremely heavy on the brakes

Also my rear brakes are stock as well. Those pads are looking toast after 20k and 3 track days
 

Lord_Flexington

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Syracuse
Car(s)
15 MK7 GTI LP PP
Getting an entire season out of a set of stock rotors on a fast GTI is not possible. On a slow GTI, perhaps.


<edit> I should say, a fast car on R-comps. No disrespect! ;)




8 hours is approximately two two-day HPDE events, by which time the rotors are showing cracks deep enough to feel with a fingernail. Perhaps i could get another event out of them, but at that point, they're going to be eroding the pads at an elevated rate, so there'd be no point.

No idea what that means. I don't turn any of the kids off as traction control or abs rarely kick on.

I've only ever used the pads on track at road America which is extremely heavy on the brakes

Also my rear brakes are stock as well. Those pads are looking toast after 20k and 3 track days
Ahhh!

Well this may be of some use to you. Our cars a very smart in normal conditions and XDS is a big deal
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8085961-Anyone-change-their-XDS-VAG-setting

Essentially under normal conditions, the car will brake the inside wheels to increase stability and keep the car moving steadily. The problem is in track conditions it slow you down and EAT pads/rotors as its constantly trying to work. On ESC/ASR those will also attempt to use the brakes quietly to keep the car stable. RA is a huge track so granted there is lots of cooling but I'm willing to bet its kickin in on the big curvers like the long right hander after the johnsonville bridge thing. Its very subtle but it will make a diff.

Next time you get out there check out the threads on XDS adaptations and with ESC. I bet you notice better rotation on turn in and power delivery on the exits.

Since you have an R reach out to Darryl he can prolly share the exact settings he uses.

:D
 

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
Ahhh!

Well this may be of some use to you. Our cars a very smart in normal conditions and XDS is a big deal
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8085961-Anyone-change-their-XDS-VAG-setting

Essentially under normal conditions, the car will brake the inside wheels to increase stability and keep the car moving steadily. The problem is in track conditions it slow you down and EAT pads/rotors as its constantly trying to work. On ESC/ASR those will also attempt to use the brakes quietly to keep the car stable. RA is a huge track so granted there is lots of cooling but I'm willing to bet its kickin in on the big curvers like the long right hander after the johnsonville bridge thing. Its very subtle but it will make a diff.

Next time you get out there check out the threads on XDS adaptations and with ESC. I bet you notice better rotation on turn in and power delivery on the exits.

Since you have an R reach out to Darryl he can prolly share the exact settings he uses.

:D
So you turn it down or off? I can PM him but he rarely responds and he also has a LSD
 

Lord_Flexington

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Syracuse
Car(s)
15 MK7 GTI LP PP
So you turn it down or off? I can PM him but he rarely responds and he also has a LSD

For ASR/ESC things check here
https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37587

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22540


Some haldex changes
https://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/21951-haldex-awd-settings-in-vcds/

Essentially you can change how the computer behaves to suit your driving style.

For time attack I have (PP GTI)

ESC Fully off
XDS -off
Vibration Reduction-Off/lowest setting

just last weekend I was on track and forgot to turn esc/asr off and oh man I was fighting hard for 2 corners as the car was trying to "Save" me.

PM if you have anymore questions I'll see what I can do or connect you with another track R user in your area. Very jealous you get to run RA. I love watkins glen and NJMP but RA is a dream circuit.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
I threw my new Ferodo DS2500 on over the weekend, after getting my rotors cut a while ago. The car was basically on jack stands for 2 weeks as other life events kept me from working on it.

They're pretty good so far on the street after being bedded in. Bedding them in was a chore and I had to find an abandoned area to do it well. A private road close to an amazon warehouse was a good place ;).

A couple observations for anyone considering these as a dual duty pad. Since they are designed for higher temps, obviously they don't grip that well until up to temp. Based on what I felt and what my temp gauge read, below 400 degrees F they're about oem like in friction. Below 200F, they are definitely nowhere near oem friction. I'd imagine in a colder climate (like I'll face this winter), these pads will require a lot of "riding the brakes" until they go from -10F to the 200F it takes to give decent friction. I have not tested them yet below 95F, so it's possible they have a level off area below that temp.

My front oem pads had cracks through them. They were REALLY bad. Definitely not for any track use. The rears are pretty shot too. We'll see how they do on track around end of sept, but I'm not looking forward to how much further forward the brake bias will be with the stock rears.
 

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
I threw my new Ferodo DS2500 on over the weekend, after getting my rotors cut a while ago. The car was basically on jack stands for 2 weeks as other life events kept me from working on it.

They're pretty good so far on the street after being bedded in. Bedding them in was a chore and I had to find an abandoned area to do it well. A private road close to an amazon warehouse was a good place ;).

A couple observations for anyone considering these as a dual duty pad. Since they are designed for higher temps, obviously they don't grip that well until up to temp. Based on what I felt and what my temp gauge read, below 400 degrees F they're about oem like in friction. Below 200F, they are definitely nowhere near oem friction. I'd imagine in a colder climate (like I'll face this winter), these pads will require a lot of "riding the brakes" until they go from -10F to the 200F it takes to give decent friction. I have not tested them yet below 95F, so it's possible they have a level off area below that temp.

My front oem pads had cracks through them. They were REALLY bad. Definitely not for any track use. The rears are pretty shot too. We'll see how they do on track around end of sept, but I'm not looking forward to how much further forward the brake bias will be with the stock rears.
I wouldn't agree with designed for higher temps. Once they get up in temp it appears they start to degrade and melt onto the rotors.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Location
Kansas City
I wouldn't agree with designed for higher temps. Once they get up in temp it appears they start to degrade and melt onto the rotors.


All pads will melt the bonding agent past certain temps. It's all a give and take. Ferodo claims they're designed for 200-550C temps with gradual fade up to 750C. With better fluid, ducts, and better rotors, keeping things under 650C during a 20 min track session, should be feasible.

"Designed for higher temps" doesn't necessarily mean it will perform well at those temps. It just means the design intent was to be able to withstand them. I bought these for a "dual duty" purpose. For strictly track/race I would have gone to ds3000, pagid/porterfield, or g-loc, but having used a true track pad on the street, I was not willing to make that compromise this time.
 

Crild

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Florida
All pads will melt the bonding agent past certain temps. It's all a give and take. Ferodo claims they're designed for 200-550C temps with gradual fade up to 750C. With better fluid, ducts, and better rotors, keeping things under 650C during a 20 min track session, should be feasible.

"Designed for higher temps" doesn't necessarily mean it will perform well at those temps. It just means the design intent was to be able to withstand them. I bought these for a "dual duty" purpose. For strictly track/race I would have gone to ds3000, pagid/porterfield, or g-loc, but having used a true track pad on the street, I was not willing to make that compromise this time.
Enjoy the headache.
 
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