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Michelin PS4 chunking on track

R

R Golf

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lenox, MA
I used Michelin PSS when they were available and now run PS4's on a 2017 Golf R. I run 40-42 hot pressure at the track and have been experiencing significant sidewall roll and chunking on the outside edge of the fronts. The car is also used as a daily driver but that contributes almost nothing to tire wear vs. track.

A Neuspeed rear sway helped the wear and turn in considerably. I'm awaiting Vorshlag camber plates; however, overall wear is surprisingly even across the tread, so I don't think it is camber related. Also I never had this problem with the SuperSports. Do the PS4's have a softer sidewall?


Couple of questions:


1) Anyone else experiencing this with the PS4's

2) Any solutions?

3) Anyone running Cup 2's on an R. Prefer not to go that way due to added $$, but if I can get an extra couple of days out of them that would be well worth it.
 
S

SRoads

Ready to race!
Location
WV
Including pictures of your tire wear may help...if you are checking them after a cool down you may even be closer to 45-46 psi hot on track.

How close are you to the wear indicators on the top of the sidewall?



Try a lower pressure for a session see what happens...make sure you have an air tank or access to air to get home.

Are you running different size than factory; that will make a difference, what are your alignment settings, have you check them since you bought the car?


Using an ir thermometer and tracking...:D your inside, middle, and outside thread temps will help tell what is going on.



Did you heat cycle the tires properly a few times before tracking them?


Why did you decide you go with vorshlag plates, rather than another brand?


http://www.trackdayguru.com/tyre-management.html
 
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R

R Golf

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lenox, MA
tmw2442 said:
Including pictures of your tire wear may help...if you are checking them after a cool down you may even be closer to 45-46 psi hot on track.


https://bit.ly/2w1KIRf Here's the link to a photo. The other failure was similar. Never experienced this with any tires with >100 track days.



How close are you to the wear indicators on the top of the sidewall?

Wear bars are fine. Roll markings are shot. Tread wear is surprisingly good and even, especially considering present camber setting.

Try a lower pressure for a session see what happens...make sure you have an air tank or access to air to get home.



Not an over-pressure issue. Wear, pressure checks, and pyrometer thermo measurements show this.


Are you running different size than factory; that will make a difference, what are your alignment settings, have you check them since you bought the car?


Running stock checked alignments. Will be retuning when camber plates arrive.



Using an ir thermometer and tracking...:D your inside, middle, and outside thread temps will help tell what is going on.


I do and I did.


Did you heat cycle the tires properly a few times before tracking them?


YES



Why did you decide you go with vorshlag plates, rather than another brand?


Reputation, want adjustability, and reviews.



http://www.trackdayguru.com/tyre-management.html
Click to expand...


..
 
S

SRoads

Ready to race!
Location
WV
Plus ground control has the same stack height and design to allow the shock more travel up into the mount. Just like oem.
 
R

R Golf

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lenox, MA
funks...tmw2442:

Thanks. OK, will take another look at GC. I'm assuming you are running GC plates. Are your cars also daily drives & track days?

Also, NVH is a big deal because we take cross country trips with our cars. Any noticeable difference?
 
A

AR11

Ready to race!
Location
CA
My outer shoulder wear improved significantly after installing the GC plates. That said, the PSS was known for this kind of wear and I wouldn't be surprised to see it in the PS4 as well. The camber should help.
 
S

SRoads

Ready to race!
Location
WV
R Golf said:
funks...tmw2442:

Thanks. OK, will take another look at GC. I'm assuming you are running GC plates. Are your cars also daily drives & track days?

Also, NVH is a big deal because we take cross country trips with our cars. Any noticeable difference?
Click to expand...


I had GC plates on my mk6. I went with the OEM camber adjustment route on my mk7 R by swapping in TT control arms and ball joints. You get the added benefit of a stiffer bushing at the rear mounting point.
 
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F

funks

Ready to race!
Location
Dublin, CA
R Golf said:
funks...tmw2442:

Thanks. OK, will take another look at GC. I'm assuming you are running GC plates. Are your cars also daily drives & track days?

Also, NVH is a big deal because we take cross country trips with our cars. Any noticeable difference?
Click to expand...

Given that almost all the adjustable camber plates out there have spherical bearings with no rubber isolation, one is really no better than the other IMHO in regards to noise isolation. So the next thing of concern would be access to adjustments, that is where the GC camber plates excel compared to the rest. My car is dual duty, hitting the track later this year when the temps cool down.

Check out the 034 Dynamic+ Camber mounts though, it's not fully adjustable but it gives you around -2.4 degrees of negative camber which seems to be the sweet spot. Given that it's cradled in rubber, best bet you have to minimize NVH. If you are serious about going to the track though, you should buy a set of wheels and tires that can handle the heat, cheaper in the long term.
 
R

R Golf

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lenox, MA
funks said:
Given that almost all the adjustable camber plates out there have spherical bearings with no rubber isolation, one is really no better than the other IMHO in regards to noise isolation. So the next thing of concern would be access to adjustments, that is where the GC camber plates excel compared to the rest. My car is dual duty, hitting the track later this year when the temps cool down.

Check out the 034 Dynamic+ Camber mounts though, it's not fully adjustable but it gives you around -2.4 degrees of negative camber which seems to be the sweet spot. Given that it's cradled in rubber, best bet you have to minimize NVH. If you are serious about going to the track though, you should buy a set of wheels and tires that can handle the heat, cheaper in the long term.
Click to expand...


More research and many here convinced me to go with GC camber plates vs. Vorshlag (who are out of stock anyway). Ordered a set today.



Won't have to wait too long to see results because I have a two day HPDE event coming up Sept 7 & 8.
 
Swoope

Swoope

Ready to race!
Location
orlando
camber plates of some sort.

but i would not run them over 35 psi hot. ask me how i know.

beers
 
R

R Golf

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lenox, MA
swoope said:
camber plates of some sort.

but i would not run them over 35 psi hot. ask me how i know.

beers
Click to expand...


OK. I'm asking. ;>)


I always ran the PSS at 40-42 hot at the track with little issue. Running the same on the PS4's with chunking. I would think 35 would make the rollover even worse. Camber plates should help big time, but still interested in pressure issues you've seen. I use a pyrometer as well and it does not seem to indicate over inflation.
 
Swoope

Swoope

Ready to race!
Location
orlando
sorry,

i have reread this thread. never had a chunking issue.. did have this happen with no camber plates and forgot to check tire pressure. was at 43psi when i came off track.. was able to drive 500 miles home on this one.

have not read anything about the ps4 having this issue. are you ps4 or ps4s? but really i would shoot for 34 hot and see how it goes.. it will feel odd at first, but it is good in the end.

ran pss on track for a while. they work well. but as i said i would stay below 35 psi.

have some pss for sale in the southeast section. https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45026 if you are running in the advanced group you will need camber plates and 200 tw tires. or have to throttle back on 300 tw tires.

beers
 

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teemmy

teemmy

Ready to race!
Location
bay area, CA
swoope said:
sorry,

i have reread this thread. never had a chunking issue.. did have this happen with no camber plates and forgot to check tire pressure. was at 43psi when i came off track.. was able to drive 500 miles home on this one.

have not read anything about the ps4 having this issue. are you ps4 or ps4s? but really i would shoot for 34 hot and see how it goes.. it will feel odd at first, but it is good in the end.

ran pss on track for a while. they work well. but as i said i would stay below 35 psi.


beers
Click to expand...

Same question, pilot sport 4 (PS4)? or pilot sport 4 s (PS4S)? Also - I run 37 hot on the track, both PSS and PS4s - that's the recommended pressure per OEM, and I've noticed that I get even wear at that PSI (even heat across the tire after a session)
 
R

R Golf

Go Kart Champion
Location
Lenox, MA
teemmy said:
Same question, pilot sport 4 (PS4)? or pilot sport 4 s (PS4S)? Also - I run 37 hot on the track, both PSS and PS4s - that's the recommended pressure per OEM, and I've noticed that I get even wear at that PSI (even heat across the tire after a session)
Click to expand...


PS4S. 37 hot may be for GTi, but I've found info and experience at 40 for R. Pyro measurements do not show over-inflation issue. I think it's 70% camber, 30% wrong tire for really hard driving in heat on track.
 
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