2015WhiteGTI
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- Chester Springs, PA
If this is such an issue "trying" to get these to fit, why wouldn't you just go with SuperPro that simply bolt right in?
7
Audi TT (8S) Control Arms
- Thread starter jdlavelle1975
- Start date
enjoyminutemaid
Ready to race!
- Location
- Upstate NY
Good question, and I personally might end up doing that, but for now here are some reasons:
1) TT oem control arms can be had for cheaper
2) Adjustable ball joints offer more alignment adjustment
3) Despite the excellent reviews, I'm not sure I want polyurethane bushings over stiffer rubber ones
enjoyminutemaid
Ready to race!
- Location
- Upstate NY
OEM Audi part numbers: see post 27 http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7278&page=2 by the Bruce
breaking badly
Banned
- Location
- St. Olaf
TT 8S (Mk. III MQB):
control arm left or right incl. bushes:
8S0407151B - left and right (about 190 € each in Europe)
ball joint:
8J0407366R - right hand
8J0407365 - left hand - from ~ 30 € each for a Febi, SKF etc.
Btw, are you interested in some Clubsport S part numbers?
front control arms (probably just the bushings being different):
5Q0 407 151 K - left
5Q0 407 152 K - right
swivels/hubs (provide some additional camber):
5Q0 407 253 E - left
5Q0 407 254 E- right
wheel bearing:
8S0 498 625 - left and right (same as Audi TT)
rear control arm (lower?):
5Q0 505 353D - left and right
(no prices on these yet)
front brake pads:
5Q0 698 151 G - 226 €/set
front brake rotors (two-piece w/alu hat):
5Q0 615 301 C - 211 € each
rear brake pads:
5G0 698 451 - 226 €/set
While the regular GTI Clubsport shares the very most parts with the GTI Performance,
the low-sample Clubsport S comes with the above listed dedicated hardware for an
improved performance on track + Pretoria wheels w/ PS Cup 2 R-compounds and some
stiffer springs and dampers and this aluminium subframe:
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11756
control arm left or right incl. bushes:
8S0407151B - left and right (about 190 € each in Europe)
ball joint:
8J0407366R - right hand
8J0407365 - left hand - from ~ 30 € each for a Febi, SKF etc.
Btw, are you interested in some Clubsport S part numbers?
front control arms (probably just the bushings being different):
5Q0 407 151 K - left
5Q0 407 152 K - right
swivels/hubs (provide some additional camber):
5Q0 407 253 E - left
5Q0 407 254 E- right
wheel bearing:
8S0 498 625 - left and right (same as Audi TT)
rear control arm (lower?):
5Q0 505 353D - left and right
(no prices on these yet)
front brake pads:
5Q0 698 151 G - 226 €/set
front brake rotors (two-piece w/alu hat):
5Q0 615 301 C - 211 € each
rear brake pads:
5G0 698 451 - 226 €/set
While the regular GTI Clubsport shares the very most parts with the GTI Performance,
the low-sample Clubsport S comes with the above listed dedicated hardware for an
improved performance on track + Pretoria wheels w/ PS Cup 2 R-compounds and some
stiffer springs and dampers and this aluminium subframe:
http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11756
.You can very most probably fit CSS swivels without any issues,
as long as you use TT wheel bearings with them. I don't think
these swivels are TT parts though since they use a 5Q number
instead of 8S numbers.
Unfortunaty CSS control arms are still pressed sheet steel. The
only difference to the standard Golf control arms are their solid
rubber bushings. The same applies to the CSS rear control arms.
On a quick look they look the same as standard.
To my current knowledge, steering rack is the same as on any
GTI/GTD/R (progressive steering). Bear in mind different swivels
could alter steering ratio if the length of the 'steering arm" is
somewhat different. This has been the case on the former PQ35
platform, where S3 swivels made a slightly shorter steering ratio
compared to Golf. Well, currently we only know about the added
camber.
I did that for you and all those interested:
I think springs and and roll bars shouldn't be as interesing since
most prefer aftermarket parts anyway. On the regular Clubsport
(non-S) these components even more are depending on gearbox,
door count and equipment. It's little too complex to list them all.
Last edited:
enjoyminutemaid
Ready to race!
- Location
- Upstate NY
If everyone can wait a couple weeks I'll play victim. Probably mid sep? Finishing up a mk1 daily driver build before doing more to my mk7! (I'll try to get some subframe pics too. Only complaint is with the VWR mount the bolt sticks down a butt load and scrapes everywhere. Might have to go SuperPro.
Beautiful mk1.
Which bolt are you referring to? And how would the superpro part be different?
CZR
Passed Driver's Ed
- Location
- Bucharest, Romania
- Car(s)
- VW Golf V GTI Ed. 30
I recently tried fitting OEM TTS 8S subframe + control arms + ball joints to my Mk7 R but things didn't go exactly as expected.
- wheels went a lot more to the outside (about 10mm/wheel), add that to my already 10mm fitted spacers (because big brakes..) and I ocasionally get tire rubbing if DCC is on comfort
- yes, I noticed a negative camber (I think -1,5)
- BOTH front level sensors are giving errors (mechanical malfunction)
The thing that really bothers me are the sensors. Any idea about this ? Double checked them, they fit tight.
Parts used:
S3/TTS subframe: 5Q0 199 369 G
TTS wishbone: 8S0 407 151 D with their joints (8J0 407 365 / 8J0 407 366)
- wheels went a lot more to the outside (about 10mm/wheel), add that to my already 10mm fitted spacers (because big brakes..) and I ocasionally get tire rubbing if DCC is on comfort
- yes, I noticed a negative camber (I think -1,5)
- BOTH front level sensors are giving errors (mechanical malfunction)
The thing that really bothers me are the sensors. Any idea about this ? Double checked them, they fit tight.
Parts used:
S3/TTS subframe: 5Q0 199 369 G
TTS wishbone: 8S0 407 151 D with their joints (8J0 407 365 / 8J0 407 366)
Last edited:
breaking badly
Banned
- Location
- St. Olaf
Thanks. About -1°30' seems spot on for spirited driving and some occasional tracking
without causing too much wear.
Are A3/S3/CSS subframe and TT/TTS subframe really the same? If so, I didn't know
that before. I still don't think the subframe adds anything to camber, but the TT arms
and ball joints definitely do. Likely this could be too much in some cases - e.g. when
you run spacers, since wider control arms mean wider track.
Regarding the level sensors: Do you have VCDS? The level sensors may want to 'learn'
the new zero position.
On a side note, DAP sell the subframe in the US: https://shopdap.com/store/5q0-199-369-g.html
without causing too much wear.
Are A3/S3/CSS subframe and TT/TTS subframe really the same? If so, I didn't know
that before. I still don't think the subframe adds anything to camber, but the TT arms
and ball joints definitely do. Likely this could be too much in some cases - e.g. when
you run spacers, since wider control arms mean wider track.
Regarding the level sensors: Do you have VCDS? The level sensors may want to 'learn'
the new zero position.
On a side note, DAP sell the subframe in the US: https://shopdap.com/store/5q0-199-369-g.html
enjoyminutemaid
Ready to race!
- Location
- Upstate NY
I recently tried fitting OEM TTS 8S subframe + control arms + ball joints to my Mk7 R but things didn't go exactly as expected.
- wheels went a lot more to the outside (about 10mm/wheel), add that to my already 10mm fitted spacers (because big brakes..) and I ocasionally get tire rubbing if DCC is on comfort
- yes, I noticed a negative camber (I think -1,5)
- BOTH front level sensors are giving errors (mechanical malfunction)
The thing that really bothers me are the sensors. Any idea about this ? Double checked them, they fit tight.
Parts used:
S3/TTS subframe: 5Q0 199 369 G
TTS wishbone: 8S0 407 151 D with their joints (8J0 407 365 / 8J0 407 366)
Thank you for posting. Would love to see alignment sheet if possible. Any idea how much additional camber the ball joints and control arms allow compared to oem?
breaking badly
Banned
- Location
- St. Olaf
Since his R's on VWR springs, which already should give about -1°10' the
current -1°30' would mean a difference/gain of 20' (minutes, 1/3 degree).
He didn't spec how the adjustable ball joints are set though. Due to the
clearance issues I'd bet the ball joints are set to minimum camber gain,
making me believe, that more than half a degree (0°30') gain is possible
with the TT arms and ball joints, perhaps even 45' gain (3/4 degree).
Fortunately now we finally know TT arms do fit. Without running spacers
the wheels probably still clear the fenders, depending on wheel offset and
tires.
current -1°30' would mean a difference/gain of 20' (minutes, 1/3 degree).
He didn't spec how the adjustable ball joints are set though. Due to the
clearance issues I'd bet the ball joints are set to minimum camber gain,
making me believe, that more than half a degree (0°30') gain is possible
with the TT arms and ball joints, perhaps even 45' gain (3/4 degree).
Fortunately now we finally know TT arms do fit. Without running spacers
the wheels probably still clear the fenders, depending on wheel offset and
tires.
Last edited:
CZR
Passed Driver's Ed
- Location
- Bucharest, Romania
- Car(s)
- VW Golf V GTI Ed. 30
Without any doubt I can say that anyone NOT running spacers can fit them without any rubbing (even with lowering springs)
Will try do/post some measurements tomorrow. I didn't tamper with the joints, left them as they came (mounted on the arms from stock TTS).
The subframe from the TTS is identical to the one from S3. As the S3 has the same arms as the R, it's clear (to me, at least) that only the arms modify the geometry.
@breaking badly: I do have VCDS but couldn't find anything useful. There were 2 basic settings that might (or not) help but I need the security code
P.S:
stock control arm: 2,7 kg each
TTS control arm: 3,0 kg each
stock subframe: 11,8 kg
TTS subframe: 8,4 kg
Will try do/post some measurements tomorrow. I didn't tamper with the joints, left them as they came (mounted on the arms from stock TTS).
The subframe from the TTS is identical to the one from S3. As the S3 has the same arms as the R, it's clear (to me, at least) that only the arms modify the geometry.
@breaking badly: I do have VCDS but couldn't find anything useful. There were 2 basic settings that might (or not) help but I need the security code
P.S:
stock control arm: 2,7 kg each
TTS control arm: 3,0 kg each
stock subframe: 11,8 kg
TTS subframe: 8,4 kg
Last edited:
enjoyminutemaid
Ready to race!
- Location
- Upstate NY
Without any doubt I can say that anyone NOT running spacers can fit them without any rubbing (even with lowering springs)
Will try do/post some measurements tomorrow. I didn't tamper with the joints, left them as they came (mounted on the arms from stock TTS).
The subframe from the TTS is identical to the one from S3. As the S3 has the same arms as the R, it's clear (to me, at least) that only the arms modify the geometry.
@breaking badly: I do have VCDS but couldn't find anything useful. There were 2 basic settings that might (or not) help but I need the security code
P.S:
stock control arm: 2,7 kg each
TTS control arm: 3,0 kg each
stock subframe: 11,8 kg
TTS subframe: 8,4 kg
Excellent. Any idea if the bushings felt firmer than the gti's?
breaking badly
Banned
- Location
- St. Olaf
Thank you, CZR! Interesting to read current Golf LCAs made from stamped steel
are even a tad lighter compared to TT aluminium control arms. I wouldn't miss the
prone-to-rust cheap sheet steel stuff though.
Good question, EMM. I hope TT arms come with the same or similar bushings as
the CSS comes with. From the pictures at least I can't gather any voids in them.
(I do know that the CSS just comes with steel arms)
are even a tad lighter compared to TT aluminium control arms. I wouldn't miss the
prone-to-rust cheap sheet steel stuff though.
Good question, EMM. I hope TT arms come with the same or similar bushings as
the CSS comes with. From the pictures at least I can't gather any voids in them.
(I do know that the CSS just comes with steel arms)
CZR
Passed Driver's Ed
- Location
- Bucharest, Romania
- Car(s)
- VW Golf V GTI Ed. 30
Front bushings are the same on CSS/TTS/GTI/R. Only the rear (horizontal) bushings are different. My R came with E revision and CSS/TTS have "F" revision (no voids). They feel very nice. Firm without really sacrificing comfort.
More pictures:
And final results today:
Translated it in mspaint
Ball joints were set to the closest point to the subframe (less negative camber)
Couldn't set it better as the front-left VWR spring sits lower by 13mm!! (compared to front-right) No success with the level sensors and won't bother with them until I fix that damn spring.
Note that negative camber comes from lowering springs also. Planning on -2.3 to -2.4 after (-2.5 seems a little too much for daily driving?)
More pictures:
And final results today:
Translated it in mspaint
Ball joints were set to the closest point to the subframe (less negative camber)
Couldn't set it better as the front-left VWR spring sits lower by 13mm!! (compared to front-right) No success with the level sensors and won't bother with them until I fix that damn spring.
Note that negative camber comes from lowering springs also. Planning on -2.3 to -2.4 after (-2.5 seems a little too much for daily driving?)
breaking badly
Banned
- Location
- St. Olaf
Whow, that's more camber than expected! Our American cousins need to
take into account that this alignment sheet most probably uses metric/ISO
angle numbers, where 60' minutes are 1° degree. So 0°30' is half a degree.
Hard to tell if -2°30' (two and a half) front camber is too much for DD, as
it highly depends on your driving. Doing many longer trips on the highway
would certainly result in increased inner tire wear, while that camber will be
rather adequate for frequent spirited driving on winding country roads.
Caster seems increased as well. I don't think lowering using VWR springs
alone would cause above 8° caster. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. If
I'm right Audi TT arms also give some caster gain (perhaps half a degree).
Thanks for all the precious information. I highly appreciate your contribution.
take into account that this alignment sheet most probably uses metric/ISO
angle numbers, where 60' minutes are 1° degree. So 0°30' is half a degree.
Hard to tell if -2°30' (two and a half) front camber is too much for DD, as
it highly depends on your driving. Doing many longer trips on the highway
would certainly result in increased inner tire wear, while that camber will be
rather adequate for frequent spirited driving on winding country roads.
Caster seems increased as well. I don't think lowering using VWR springs
alone would cause above 8° caster. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. If
I'm right Audi TT arms also give some caster gain (perhaps half a degree).
Thanks for all the precious information. I highly appreciate your contribution.
breaking badly
Banned
- Location
- St. Olaf
Forgot to ask about your driving impressions. With that camber your R should corner like a Porsche.
Hope you get that level sensor thing sorted!
Hope you get that level sensor thing sorted!