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Negative Camber up front. How much is needed

jmason

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Frederick, MD
You are correct.
Thanks for the heads-up. Didn't know that...

Also assuming you are lowered. If not, you might make it work. It would be very close.
 

A3SBQ

Ready to race!
Location
Norway
jmason.
I am not lowered. Running full stock OEM springs and DCC dampers. How much is to much negative camber?
Let's say I don't get any rubbing by adding the 034motorsport top mounts.
I would den get around - 3.4 degrees of negative camber (I'm at - 2 aprox now)
Will I have any benefits on the track?
 

theDoktor

Go Kart Champion
Location
Buffalo, NY area
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
I just got my new, completely stock 2017 Sport out of the alignment shop in preparation for this weekend's first autocross of the year. Some creative adjusting got the front camber to -1.1 degrees on the LF and -1.27 on the RF. There may be a bit more adjustment range there than you think!
Now that I have some good baseline numbers, I've got a solid starting point for further tweaking. First thing will be to get the RF camber closer to the LF. Shouldn't be too hard- I've got a digital camber gauge...
I'm running in G Street class with the local SCCA, so I can't add camber plates, adjustable ball joints, etc.
Seeing how the weather has (and still is) been cold & snowy, I figure my P7 all seasons won't be at much of a disadvantage to the RE71's on the cold pavement. It MAY get into the mid-50's on Sunday.
Oh yeah, this car is a DD too. Depending on tire wear, I may have to crank back the negative camber a bit while on the street.
 
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Chuckable

Ready to race!
Some creative adjusting got the front camber to -1.1 degrees on the LF and -1.27 on the RF. There may be a bit more adjustment range there than you think!


I’ve looked at the suspension and don’t know how front camber can be adjusted in this style strut. How did your shop get those numbers?



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jmason

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Frederick, MD
jmason.
I am not lowered. Running full stock OEM springs and DCC dampers. How much is to much negative camber?
Let's say I don't get any rubbing by adding the 034motorsport top mounts.
I would den get around - 3.4 degrees of negative camber (I'm at - 2 aprox now)
Will I have any benefits on the track?

Pretty much as much negative camber as you can get is better for the track. I doubt you could get up to -4 deg. I'm at -2 and the the front wheel is nearly perpendicular to the track during hard cornering. This from track-side photos.

The front suspension doesn't have much camber gain, so most body roll is translated into camber. Limit body roll and you limit camber change.
 

Zacr811

Ready to race!
Location
Toronto
Pretty much as much negative camber as you can get is better for the track. I doubt you could get up to -4 deg. I'm at -2 and the the front wheel is nearly perpendicular to the track during hard cornering. This from track-side photos.



The front suspension doesn't have much camber gain, so most body roll is translated into camber. Limit body roll and you limit camber change.



This is correct. I’m maxed out at -3 with just camber plates but had to cut the towers to accommodate. I would like to get up to -3.5 or -4 to test out and see what it’s like. I also run -2 in the rear with 0 toe.


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jmason

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Frederick, MD
I also run -2 in the rear with 0 toe.

Can you get to -2 just through adjustments or did you change out suspension components?

I'm currently at -1.5. Looking at my trackside photos, the rear could use more static negative camber. Then I could dial in more rear swaybar.
 

Zacr811

Ready to race!
Location
Toronto
Can you get to -2 just through adjustments or did you change out suspension components?



I'm currently at -1.5. Looking at my trackside photos, the rear could use more static negative camber. Then I could dial in more rear swaybar.



Yes stock components.


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theDoktor

Go Kart Champion
Location
Buffalo, NY area
Car(s)
2017 GTI Sport
The top mount has a small amount of slop in it that can be used for camber adjustment. Same with the lower mount of the strut to the spindle assembly. Tweak both of them to get maximum camber.
 
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odessa.filez

Autocross Newbie
Location
Roswell, GA
Car(s)
2016 GSW 1.8tsi auto
just bought one of those cheapo Amazon bubble camber gauge. Have Vorshlag plates at full adjust, both camber and caster.

At full adjust, gauge bubble is between -3 and -2.5, with bubble just creeping beyond -3. Let's call it -2.8.

At an autox event, new 205 50r15 re71r s rolled over, even at 45lbs hot. Front springs rate is somewhere between 175-200.

So....have a cheapo control arm on order, along with a cheapo audi tt ball joint to check for retrofitting potential and adding more camber. Will check in it goes anywhere.
 

Obakong

Ready to race!
Location
CA
just bought one of those cheapo Amazon bubble camber gauge. Have Vorshlag plates at full adjust, both camber and caster.

At full adjust, gauge bubble is between -3 and -2.5, with bubble just creeping beyond -3. Let's call it -2.8.

At an autox event, new 205 50r15 re71r s rolled over, even at 45lbs hot. Front springs rate is somewhere between 175-200.

So....have a cheapo control arm on order, along with a cheapo audi tt ball joint to check for retrofitting potential and adding more camber. Will check in it goes anywhere.



You may just want to control body roll instead of going higher camber. Chassis braces (like from iSweep), stiffer front and rear sway bars, coil overs with stiffer spring rate.


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odessa.filez

Autocross Newbie
Location
Roswell, GA
Car(s)
2016 GSW 1.8tsi auto
You may just want to control body roll instead of going higher camber. Chassis braces (like from iSweep), stiffer front and rear sway bars, coil overs with stiffer spring rate.


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thanks. I'm running 150 lb springs up front with a spring rubber isolating 1 of 4 coils, thus the "guess" on the true rate on my post. I've run a second rubber but it caused the car to rotate less.

given this and since I'm in a tire width (205) restricted class at my club, I think there's a balance to find with a little more camber and possibly more spring, front and back. At some point more spring may cause the skinnier tire to give up.

trying to keep things very civilized for the street and budget friendly, thus lots of tweaks and tuning with spring rubbers, bump springs and bump stop packers....need the money for tires lol

I'm hoping I can find another 1° in the arms which will give me an adjustment range with plates of around ~~ -4 to -1.5. Reasonable for street and capable to go all-out for events.
 

n2rcn4fun1

New member
Location
VA
just bought one of those cheapo Amazon bubble camber gauge. Have Vorshlag plates at full adjust, both camber and caster.

At full adjust, gauge bubble is between -3 and -2.5, with bubble just creeping beyond -3. Let's call it -2.8.

At an autox event, new 205 50r15 re71r s rolled over, even at 45lbs hot. Front springs rate is somewhere between 175-200.

So....have a cheapo control arm on order, along with a cheapo audi tt ball joint to check for retrofitting potential and adding more camber. Will check in it goes anywhere.

how do you like the vorshlag plates, I am looking at 034, are they easy to adjust, did you have to cut the top strut mount. I imagine your running in the STH class, 205 not enough tire, we run 245 on 7.5 wheel, I am in the middle of converting to STH class and going with 255 in front 245 in rear, mss kits and camber plates
 
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