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Car and Driver- Civic Type R vs Golf R: Hot Hatch Showdown

N

Navi

Autocross Champion
Location
BK/NYC/Hamptons
docwyte said:
Sure ya can. My friend bought a brand new GTI for $25,500. So that's $7k to spend for parts, that goes a long way. You can't even buy a CTR for MSRP around here, the dealers are adding $5-10k. So a CTR can cost almost twice what the GTi does.



That said, a CTR is a better track car, period. The GTi/R is a much better DD. So choose which one you'd rather have, for me, it was the R.
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I agree with your second paragraph but the first one has to be taken with a grain of salt. All this what if, hypothetical stuff doesn't mean anything. Keeping things constant, MSRP GTI vs MSRP CTR is what I'm talking about. And you can get CTR for MSRP anywhere. If you want to talk about how prices affect things, then we also have to talk about how the CTR holds value much much better than a GTI.
 
D

docwyte

Go Kart Champion
Location
Denver, co
CTR for msrp anywhere? Ok, then add in the travel costs to get it home, whether that's a fly n drive or shipping.



You live in an area that's heavily populated and can drive from NYC to Boston in 3.5 hours. That gives you many, many more dealerships to buy a car from, with minimal time/money spent in transport cost.



3.5 hours doesn't get you halfway across Colorado.


There's no doubt that a CTR is a better track car than a GTi/R but its not a better car. I'm not interested in a brand new $40k hot hatch, wrong wheel drive track car. A $10k properly setup BMW E36 M3 will eat a CTR for lunch at the track, with more than $30k left in the bank.


I want a fun DD, and the Golf R is just a much nicer place to be. Then if you live where winter means snow, the awd is a bonus.
 
jimlloyd40

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
docwyte said:
CTR for msrp anywhere? Ok, then add in the travel costs to get it home, whether that's a fly n drive or shipping.



You live in an area that's heavily populated and can drive from NYC to Boston in 3.5 hours. That gives you many, many more dealerships to buy a car from, with minimal time/money spent in transport cost.



3.5 hours doesn't get you halfway across Colorado.


There's no doubt that a CTR is a better track car than a GTi/R but its not a better car. I'm not interested in a brand new $40k hot hatch, wrong wheel drive track car. A $10k properly setup BMW E36 M3 will eat a CTR for lunch at the track, with more than $30k left in the bank.


I want a fun DD, and the Golf R is just a much nicer place to be. Then if you live where winter means snow, the awd is a bonus.
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How did BMW get thrown into the comparison of a CTR and Golf R? I could choose other cars that would beat the BMW but that's not the point of the thread.
 
N

Navi

Autocross Champion
Location
BK/NYC/Hamptons
jimlloyd40 said:
How did BMW get thrown into the comparison of a CTR and Golf R? I could choose other cars that would beat the BMW but that's not the point of the thread.
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exactly.. that's what I'm trying to say. The only way to compare things is to keep them as they are (constant and stock, at their suggested MSRP) instead of making all these stretches and changes (modifications, used car price vs new car price). It's like saying Allen Iverson could have been better than Michael Jordan if he weighed more and was taller. Oh wait actually they are two different players. Shit, I could have been in the NBA if I was taller and better at basketball.

But fan boys gonna fan boy.
 
anotero

anotero

Autocross Champion
Location
Hither and thither
Car(s)
Mk7 GTI
Navi said:
well if you want to compare apples and oranges, i can make a 5k Miata a superstar with 15 grand. Will shit on a GTI, Golf R or CTR

lol

the fact remains, stock for stock, mod for mod, a GTI will never come close to CTR. Golf R is a better match but even then they are two completely different vehicles. Comparing modded cars to stock cars never made sense to me. All you are doing is playing catch up. Trying to make a inferior car as good as superior car that came out of the factory that way.
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Jussaying. I never understood doing that comparison either. BUT if a CTR is more expensive, then it makes sense talking about modding a mk7 using the price difference to bring it to CTR's level or beyond. Whatever floats people's boats.
 
R

RichardCranium

Ready to race!
Location
Arizona
Comparing modded cars to stock cars is disingenuous.

The CTR and the Golf R are great cars. I think my GTI is a great car too, especially at the $20k I paid for it. I'm not going to pretend that it's as good as those cars, but for my needs it's perfect. It's a commuter, any more performance is lost on me.

I've done the heavily modified car thing and it gets tiring after a while and car parts are a spectacular waste of money.
 
jimlloyd40

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
RichardCranium said:
Comparing modded cars to stock cars is disingenuous.

The CTR and the Golf R are great cars. I think my GTI is a great car too, especially at the $20k I paid for it. I'm not going to pretend that it's as good as those cars, but for my needs it's perfect. It's a commuter, any more performance is lost on me.

I've done the heavily modified car thing and it gets tiring after a while and car parts are a spectacular waste of money.
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At what point is it supposed to get tiring? I've been modding for 50 years. :D
 
C

CFB_GTA

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Canada
I used to have a 5th gen prelude too, sounds like others did too :).

I'd love to see a dsg gti, flash tuned to ctr hp, go against a ctr with both cars having camber mods and a sway bar, and re71rs. This is a real comparison, unless the point was to proclaim which brand has the more ostentatious fanboys. Around a 60 sec track, what would a ctr be faster by, 1 sec, 2 sec, 0.5sec? If the latter, it being characterized as a weapon is analogous to a swiss army knife. I truly do want to see it 2 sec faster though and discuss the physics of why.
 
jimlloyd40

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
CFB_GTA said:
I used to have a 5th gen prelude too, sounds like others did too :).

I'd love to see a dsg gti, flash tuned to ctr hp, go against a ctr with both cars having camber mods and a sway bar, and re71rs. This is a real comparison, unless the point was to proclaim which brand has the more ostentatious fanboys. Around a 60 sec track, what would a ctr be faster by, 1 sec, 2 sec, 0.5sec? If the latter, it being characterized as a weapon is analogous to a swiss army knife. I truly do want to see it 2 sec faster though and discuss the physics of why.
Click to expand...


It would take more than a tune to get a GTI up to the CTR power numbers. That's also not the point. The thread is a comparison of the CTR to a Golf R because people cross shop those.
 
Z

zinfamous

Go Kart Newbie
Location
MD
chillax said:
The Golf R they used was a manual which is why the comparison is dumb. If you are going to do a test like this at least use the best available options for each car.
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disagree.

you compare parts for parts because it's the only proper way to do it. It may not sound "fair," but it really is. It's the same reason you don't try to compare modded vs stocked. It's ridiculous. All you do is jump into the rabbit hole of defining what is "the best version" before you eventually realize that you lost the game days ago. And in the end, all your data is shit and no one should trust it.

Yes, obviously the DSG will be way faster on a start and in a straight line, but I'm still not sure that matters in the end with a full track test. The CTR is a beast.
 
Maximo7

Maximo7

New member
Location
In account limbo cant post
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
Well, the only really fair 'stock for stock' track performance comparison would be the Golf Clubsport S vs the CTR.

They both have 2 liter Turbo 306hp engines, 'Track day' spec tires and decent performance camber settings.

It's a real shame the Golf CSS isn't sold here in the USA.
 
Mk_GTI

Mk_GTI

Go Kart Champion
Location
Hellinois
Car(s)
2018 Golf R
jimlloyd40 said:
It would take more than a tune to get a GTI up to the CTR power numbers. That's also not the point. The thread is a comparison of the CTR to a Golf R because people cross shop those.
Click to expand...

Get a stage 2 tune and you'll be replacing the OEM clutch very early.
 
PerceivedShift

PerceivedShift

Autocross Champion
Location
Virginia
zinfamous said:
for the lulz?
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300hp is fine for FWD, 400hp I consider the limit for a DD. Of course it's not every ones cup of tea. Which is why the R is such a better option than the CTR, it's just as fast and will put well over 400hp to the ground if you ever feel the need. Most people are not testing the limits of the car at the track either.



Also lets not forget the STI exists...they tend to hold value as well. Though, if you are choosing a car based on how it holds value, you should probably buy used. Or invest your money instead in actual assets :rolleyes:
 
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