GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

Used oil analysis--first 10K--results

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
I bought my GTI/Autobahn on Dec. 15, 2017. Around the second week of May, the "change oil now!" light came on (matches up with one year from the build date, May 2017). Three weeks later, at 9681 miles, I changed it and grabbed a sample to send to Horizon (Oil Analyzers Inc.).

My driving is primarily by myself, for work. I spend quite a bit of time on the freeway, often at higher speeds. I live where there can be both harsh winter and harsh summer; this past winter was harsh, very harsh, AND very long.

I measured no oil use or loss compared to when I first picked the car up. I added no oil during this interval.

The test came back with an overall grade of 2, on a scale from 0 to 4. 0 and 1 are normal, 2 and 3 are "abnormal", 4 is "critical".

But the devil is in the details. Out of everything they test (including fuel dilution and base level), they flagged only three items:

1) Copper was in the yellow, at 48ppm.

2) Titanium was in the red, at 48ppm.

3) Base level was flagged GREEN, at 2.91 milligrams of potassium hydroxide per gram of sample. That means the additive still had life in it--which is what I expected.

This was the factory fill. I'm not at all worried about a 10K interval yet. I'll do this again at 20K and compare that with this break-in interval.

Following are the relevant definitions for the above, per Horizon; this will help the discussion ongoing about oils "going bad". Of particular interest is the base level and how it's affected by "low quality fuels"; so, go ahead and buy that grocery store gas, people, but understand what you're doing. Best case, you're reducing your oil change interval, which means in the end you're paying good money down the road so you can "save" money at the grocery store pump.

Copper
Definition
Copper is a wear metal detected with Elemental Analysis by ICP-OES (Inductively-Coupled Plasma – Optical Emission Spectrometry), which detects many elements that can be present in used oil due to wear, contamination or additives.

Wear Metals include Iron, Chromium, Nickel, Aluminum, Copper, Lead, Tin, Cadmium, Silver, and Vanadium. Contaminant Elements include Silicon, Sodium, and Potassium. Multi-Source Elements include Titanium, Molybdenum, Antimony, Manganese, Lithium, and Boron. Additive Elements include Magnesium, Calcium, Barium, Phosphorus and Zinc. Elemental Analysis is instrumental in determining the type and severity of wear and contamination occurring within a unit. For condition monitoring, ICP-OES provides critical information of a machine's health.

Standard Test Method Used
mod. ASTM D5185

Unit of Measurement
ppm (parts per million)

Amount of Sample Needed
2 mL

Test Limitation
Particles over approximately 10µm in diameter may not be fully analyzed by the instrument.

Possible Sources
Reciprocating Compressors
Bearings, Bushings, Thrust Washers, Oil Cooler Tubing

Rotary Compressors
Bearings Bushings, Thrust Plate, Cooler Core Tubing

Turbines / Centrifugal Compressors
Bearings Bushings, Thrust Plate, Cooler Core Tubing

Hydraulics
Bearings, Bushings, Thrust Washers, Oil Cooler Tubing

Reciprocating Engines
Main / Rod Bearings (also look for lead), Brass / Bronze Bushings (also look for Tin and / or Zinc), Oil Cooler Core Tubing

Transmissions
Clutch Plates, Brass / Bronze Bushings (also look for Tin and / or Lead & Zinc), Oil Cooler Core Tubing

Gear Systems
Brass / Bronze Bushings (also look for Tin and / or Lead & Zinc), Cage Metal from Roller Bearings, Oil Cooler Core Tubing


Titanium
Definition
Titanium is a wear metal detected with Elemental Analysis by ICP-OES (Inductively-Coupled Plasma – Optical Emission Spectrometry), which detects many elements that can be present in used oil due to wear, contamination or additives.

Wear Metals include Iron, Chromium, Nickel, Aluminum, Copper, Lead, Tin, Cadmium, Silver, and Vanadium. Contaminant Elements include Silicon, Sodium, and Potassium. Multi-Source Elements include Titanium, Molybdenum, Antimony, Manganese, Lithium, and Boron. Additive Elements include Magnesium, Calcium, Barium, Phosphorus and Zinc. Elemental Analysis is instrumental in determining the type and severity of wear and contamination occurring within a unit. For condition monitoring, ICP-OES provides critical information of a machine's health.

Standard Test Method Used
mod. ASTM D5185

Unit of Measurement
ppm (parts per million)

Amount of Sample Needed
2 mL

Test Limitation
Particles over approximately 10µm in diameter may not be fully analyzed by the instrument.

Possible Sources
Reciprocating Compressors
Valves, Piston Pins

Rotary Compressors
Shafts, Gears, Bearings, Paint or Coatings

Turbines / Centrifugal Compressors
Shafts, Gears, Bearings, Paint or Coatings

Hydraulics
Valves, Piston Pins, Bearings, Shafts

Reciprocating Engines
Valves, Piston Pins, Bearings, Shafts, Lubricant additive

Transmissions
Shafts, Gears, Bearings, Paint or Coatings

Gear Systems
Shafts, Gears, Bearings, Paint or Coatings


Base Number
Definition
Base Number measures a lubricant's alkaline reserve, or ability to neutralize acid. Base Number will decrease while the lubricant is in service because it is controlling the acids formed during the combustion process. The Base Number will eventually drop to a point that indicates that the lubricant's additives have been depleted and a lubricant change is recommended.

Standard Test Method Used
mod. ASTM D4739

Unit of Measurement
mg KOH/g (milligrams of potassium hydroxide per gram of sample)

Amount of Sample Needed
4 g (grams)

Test Limitation
Used for used engine oils only to determine safe extension of drain intervals. Contamination by coolant can artificially raise base number.

Possible Sources
The most common reasons for a drop in the Base Number are related to low-quality fuel and oil oxidation. During combustion, a low-quality fuel with high Sulfur content can produce Sulfuric Acid, which attacks the oil and causes a drop in the Base Number. Oil oxidation as a result of engine overheating or extending the oil drain interval will also lead to a drop in the Base Number.
 

southpawboston

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Somerville, MA
Interesting results. Do you prefer any gas brand within the top-tier umbrella or do you fill up with whatever top tier you are closest to?

I've been using top-tier exclusively, but without being partial to any one brand.

To my surprise, when my dealer delivers new cars, they fill them as a courtesy... at the station across the street which is a no-name, non top-tier gas. :rolleyes:
 

c72k

Go Kart Champion
Location
CA
Car(s)
BMW
^ they tried to do that with mine, but I insisted that they use Chevron instead lol

Op: will you consider doing 5k changes instead? Just as a comparison?
 

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
Interesting results. Do you prefer any gas brand within the top-tier umbrella or do you fill up with whatever top tier you are closest to?

I've been using top-tier exclusively, but without being partial to any one brand.

To my surprise, when my dealer delivers new cars, they fill them as a courtesy... at the station across the street which is a no-name, non top-tier gas. :rolleyes:

In general, I try my hardest to use Costco gas. Absent that, I will seek out Shell (but grumble at the price).

But that's not 100% convenient to me. I will use BP as my third choice, then if I have to I will use what I have to near the freeway.
 

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
^ they tried to do that with mine, but I insisted that they use Chevron instead lol

Op: will you consider doing 5k changes instead? Just as a comparison?

I could, and may. But right now I want to get the initial 10K out of the way and see what another 10K brings. After that I may try 5K as a comparison.
 

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
Use Exxon or Shell, get your oil hot.

Tips for MK7 longevity.

Funny you should say that. I'm Costco and Shell gas, and I am very conscious of getting the oil to temp before going batshit on it.

I spent the first 1000 miles being somewhat gentle, ramping it up a bit. It was bitter cold, but I did plenty of long distance driving inside of that.

As far as I know I'm not using oil, my gas mileage is good, and I think my oil is holding up well.
 

c72k

Go Kart Champion
Location
CA
Car(s)
BMW
I could, and may. But right now I want to get the initial 10K out of the way and see what another 10K brings. After that I may try 5K as a comparison.

That was going to be my suggestion. Keep us posted! Lol
 

shortyb

Autocross Newbie
Location
Upstate SC
Car(s)
Felon Taxi,Dad Wagon
Can you post up the whole analysis? Hard to make conclusions without some of the other readings. And based on what you have here, do you have any concerns? Base depletion is normal and takes a hit on break-in while engine is still sealing up.
 

zero10

Ready to race!
Thanks for sharing - would you mind posting the full results?

Copper at 48 is a little high, my car at 15200km had 33. Unfortunately my lab didn't test for titanium so I can't compare there. I know a few others on here have done UOA and can probably chime in as well.

If that's all they flagged then so far you're fine at 10k oil change intervals, I'd carry on with them (as you have already said you plan to do).
 

shortyb

Autocross Newbie
Location
Upstate SC
Car(s)
Felon Taxi,Dad Wagon
Elementals look good for the mileage, titanium is most likely an oil additive in lieu of Molybdenum. Your oil seems a tad overdue for a change by looking at the visc., TBN, oxidation and nitration numbers. Appears to have thinned, then thickened a bit. I bet the closed cup of your fuel dilution would be high as the TBN, again, is taking the hit with the added blow-by. There are deposits forming as the nitration is >10abs units and the oxidation is showing the acidic delta. A better oil and shorter OCI would be my recommendation. If you do choose to continue with a 10K, I'd keep a close eye on things. Overall not too bad, but could be better with small changes.
 

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
Does anyone know what the factory fill is? Are we sure it's Castrol?

I plan on testing again when I change at 20K. If I keep up my driving habits, that should be late December/early January.

But if for some reason my habits change drastically, especially down to shorter and/or in-town trips, I won't let it go that far.
 

The Fed

Old Guys Rule
Location
Florida
Pretty sure it's Castrol. If you're really anal about oil perhaps you should be using 100% synthetic. Castrol is only about 50%.
 

ManInTheClouds

Ready to race!
Location
OK
Fun fact:


It's less about the brand of oil you use, but more that you're regular with maintenance.


This is an open secret on BITOG.



Use a 502 oil that also meets MB 229.5, Porsche A40, one or two others.
They will all perform essentially the same.
 
Top