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A couple of questions about intercoolers

A

Al_in_Philly

Autocross Newbie
Location
Philadelphia USA
I'm inching closer to a stage 2 upgrade. But of course, there's also the question of which intercooler to get to go along with it. I've been reading (a lot) about different design considerations, but still have a question that forum members might be best at answering: when you upgraded your intercooler size, how much additional lag from the increased intake volume did you notice? And if you could, which intercooler did you go with? Thanks.
 
R

reallypeacedoff

Ready to race!
Location
Los Angeles
Al_in_Philly said:
I'm inching closer to a stage 2 upgrade. But of course, there's also the question of which intercooler to get to go along with it. I've been reading (a lot) about different design considerations, but still have a question that forum members might be best at answering: when you upgraded your intercooler size, how much additional lag from the increased intake volume did you notice? And if you could, which intercooler did you go with? Thanks.
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If you are upgrading your downpipe, I would imagine the freer flow will mitigate the change in pressure drop no?

I too am pretty close to going all Stage II and probably going to go with APR.
 
A

Al_in_Philly

Autocross Newbie
Location
Philadelphia USA
reallypeacedoff said:
If you are upgrading your downpipe, I would imagine the freer flow will mitigate the change in pressure drop no?

I too am pretty close to going all Stage II and probably going to go with APR.
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Airflow within the intercooler has a lot to do with the design, however the air volume within the system is a factor as per turbo lag. As intercoolers get larger to reduce more heat, some of that size increase is due to alterations in fin area and type to better exchange heat, but also the internal contained volume of air within the system. When the air volume is increased, the overall pressure decreases, requiring more air to achieve the same pressure as before. This requires more time, or "lag" before the boost pressure is reestablished, as when hitting the throttle or shifting gears. Installing a larger intercooler reduces more heat, allowing for denser air and greater overall power prior to the onset of pre-ignition, but at the price of greater time required to fully pressurize the intake system. Whether or not this delay is negligible in real world driving, is what I was asking about, with regards to various intercooler designs. That's something I haven't been able to find in my research yet.
 
flipflp

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
I think what you're asking is very situational and many people's sensitivities to that are going to change the answer you get.

I have both the Integrated Engineering (IE) downpipe and intercooler on my car, UM tuned ECU and TCU, and I couldn't identify any negatives going from stage 1 to stage 2 no IC, to stage 2 with IC. I do notice more power and more consistent power especially on hotter days.

The IE intercooler looked very well made, gave my installer no issues, and even has a bung on it for WMI if I wanted. There are definitely other good options depending on your budget, but I wanted to second the IE suggestion.
 
A

Al_in_Philly

Autocross Newbie
Location
Philadelphia USA
flipflp said:
The IE intercooler looked very well made, gave my installer no issues, and even has a bung on it for WMI if I wanted. There are definitely other good options depending on your budget, but I wanted to second the IE suggestion.
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Thanks so much. I can't tell from their website whether or not the intercooler slips into the stock slot between the AC condenser and radiator, or in front of the two. Where does it fit? Also, if it does mount in front of everything, is there any bumper trimming necessary?
 
flipflp

flipflp

Autocross Newbie
Location
PNW
Car(s)
'16 Golf R DSG
Al_in_Philly said:
Thanks so much. I can't tell from their website whether or not the intercooler slips into the stock slot between the AC condenser and radiator, or in front of the two. Where does it fit? Also, if it does mount in front of everything, is there any bumper trimming necessary?
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It's a factory position IC, just replaces the OEM IC. No trimming needed, from their site:

HIGH-QUALITY CONSTRUCTION, PERFECT FITMENT

Not only does it offer the highest cooling efficiency on the market, the IE FDS intercooler also offers perfect OEM replacement and requires no modifications to install. Many other kits available require cutting and drilling for fitment, which is the last thing you want to do to your MK7. With CNC machined mount points, each and every IE intercooler allows you to reuse the factory mounting points and installs as if it were a factory piece. You will also find that the IE intercooler receives the same attention to detail and quality as every other IE product, with U.S cast and machined end tanks, precise TIG welding, and a dense bar-and-plate core. Every intercooler is tested on our in-house intercooler testing station before shipping, ensuring that it is ready to install.
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Also you can check out their install guide here:

https://pbie.s3.amazonaws.com/guides/IETPCI1 INSTALL GUIDE.pdf
 
TAZZ1

TAZZ1

Ready to race!
Location
Bey, LB
MiamiBourne

MiamiBourne

Go Kart Champion
Location
South Florida
Car(s)
2016 6MT Golf R Oryx
Al_in_Philly said:
I'm inching closer to a stage 2 upgrade. But of course, there's also the question of which intercooler to get to go along with it. I've been reading (a lot) about different design considerations, but still have a question that forum members might be best at answering: when you upgraded your intercooler size, how much additional lag from the increased intake volume did you notice? And if you could, which intercooler did you go with? Thanks.
Click to expand...

I installed the Integrated Engineering IC a few weeks ago and I did not notice any lag. I'm surprised because of the size that there isn't lag or a little loss of boost but no one I know has complained about that on this platform.

I took some pics and referenced a great DIY from YouTube on my build thread (post #223). Later on in my build I documented some logs of stock vs the upgraded IC.

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?9033393-MiamiBourne-2016-Golf-R-Build-(Base-6MT)/page9
 
oddspyke

oddspyke

Autocross Champion
Location
Delaware
Car(s)
2016 GTI, 2018 ZL1
The best way to tell how much lag is introduced is with before and after logs taken with full throttle application from the same rpm. Just use the time stamps to see what the increase in time to full boost pressure is. You're likely looking at tenths of a second, but there's only one way to be sure. I can share logs from before and after my install for you, but they weren't taken same day/conditions and I did a DP and time change at the same time, so it's not really apples to apples. Perhaps another member has some before and after logs they can share. Bottom line though, yes it adds lag but little enough that most people don't notice it.
 
A

Al_in_Philly

Autocross Newbie
Location
Philadelphia USA
oddspyke said:
The best way to tell how much lag is introduced is with before and after logs taken with full throttle application from the same rpm. Just use the time stamps to see what the increase in time to full boost pressure is. You're likely looking at tenths of a second, but there's only one way to be sure. I can share logs from before and after my install for you, but they weren't taken same day/conditions and I did a DP and time change at the same time, so it's not really apples to apples. Perhaps another member has some before and after logs they can share. Bottom line though, yes it adds lag but little enough that most people don't notice it.
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Thanks for the input, but since I never plan on tracking my car, these SOP insights suffice quite well!
 
GTI Jake

GTI Jake

Autocross Champion
Location
Charlotte, NC
oddspyke said:
The best way to tell how much lag is introduced is with before and after logs taken with full throttle application from the same rpm. Just use the time stamps to see what the increase in time to full boost pressure is. You're likely looking at tenths of a second, but there's only one way to be sure. I can share logs from before and after my install for you, but they weren't taken same day/conditions and I did a DP and time change at the same time, so it's not really apples to apples. Perhaps another member has some before and after logs they can share. Bottom line though, yes it adds lag but little enough that most people don't notice it.
Click to expand...

That’s actually not an accurate measurement either.

Our ECU makes boost based on a calculated requested TQ value.

With cooler denser air making more power and allowing greater timing advance, less boost may be required to hit the TQ target the ECU has set (all other possible variations aside).

Long story short there’s no negative side effects to an intercooler upgrade & it should be considered the most important bolt on for both consistency and longevity on ANY modified mk7 (not limited to stage 2 and above)
 
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