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Why Small Turbo Engines Get Lousy Mileage

southpawboston

southpawboston

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Somerville, MA
Rogues Gambit said:
It was Gas, Electric and Steam initially

Which one of the 3 stood the test of time?
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Not a fair comparison. Too much lobbying killed electric for cars. There was a good documentary on this, called "Who killed the electric car".

The gas and oil lobby is huge and is dead set to kill any alternative technology no matter how viable or superior it may be.
 
heiney9

heiney9

Go Kart Champion
Location
Illinois
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport DSG
danall said:
Aargh...the gas mileage thread. There are different urban driving conditions and different driving habits. Just because you can't get 30mpg doesn't mean those who do are lying.
today i checked the computer, 205 miles since fillup, all urban driving, 28.8 mph average with 30.2 mpg average over those 205 miles...ALL urban.
Keep in mind my urban situation, i have a urban commute that involves 6 miles of "beltline" of 55 MPH. ALso another frequent stretch is 5 miles of 40 MPH with just a few stop lites. It all depends upon the actual urban routes and number of stops etc, but my weekly urban average is almost always over 30 mpg. Now as far as highway, no i don't think i've every averaged 40 but 36-38 seems about normal. Spirited rural driving, that's a whole nuther story.
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Never averaged anywhere near 30 mpg in an urban setting and on the highway I might be able to nudge 34 if I am extremely judicious in almost never pushing the gas pedal after I set the cruise and it better not be Summer when the air is on.

EPA rating is 25/33 for DSG. If you are getting grossly more than that or grossly under that then you aren't calculating correctly or you have an issue.

If someone is getting 30 or more and describing it as city driving, then that's the wrong description. And those showing computer screen shots for getting over 40 on the highway are just cherry picking the best short term result trying to pass it off as having a much more fuel efficient GTi than the rest of us.

I do a lot of starting and stopping in the city and that kills short term mileage. Sitting at several long lights kills short term mileage. Average it over a tank or two and I get close to EPA numbers. Sometimes a bit better, sometime a bit worse.

On my current tank according to the computer setting "since fill-up" and I've used 1/2 tank of fuel since last week, I am averaging 20.6 in the city. But, it's been hot, I've been running the air and have lots of starts, stops w/idling in between. Instantaneous MPG readout can read as high as 26-27 mpg, but that's just a small point in time, the average is the more accurate indication. (car has 7500 miles on the odo)
 
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danall

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
USA
EPA rating is 25/33 for DSG. If you are getting grossly more than that or grossly under that then you aren't calculating correctly or you have an issue.

If someone is getting 30 or more and describing it as city driving, then that's the wrong description. And those showing computer screen shots for getting over 40 on the highway are just cherry picking the best short term result trying to pass it off as having a much more fuel efficient GTi than the rest of us.
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#1. I did not calculate this, this GTI does have an on board computer that calculates it ya know.
I described my driving and its entirely within city, perhaps it does not match YOUR, definition but because you can't achieve it doesn't mean no one else can....IT is city driving, it is my normal entirely within city driving for 205 miles. I don't use AC, i drive a manual, I have no long and very few stop lites in my normal route. I plan my routes to avoid long lites. No it's not the "average" type of city driving encountered, it is MY city driving and what i get. Let it rest.
 
T

Tsi7

Ready to race!
Location
Ontario, Canada
heiney9 said:
Never averaged anywhere near 30 mpg in an urban setting and on the highway I might be able to nudge 34 if I am extremely judicious in almost never pushing the gas pedal after I set the cruise and it better not be Summer when the air is on.

EPA rating is 25/33 for DSG. If you are getting grossly more than that or grossly under that then you aren't calculating correctly or you have an issue.

If someone is getting 30 or more and describing it as city driving, then that's the wrong description. And those showing computer screen shots for getting over 40 on the highway are just cherry picking the best short term result trying to pass it off as having a much more fuel efficient GTi than the rest of us.

I do a lot of starting and stopping in the city and that kills short term mileage. Sitting at several long lights kills short term mileage. Average it over a tank or two and I get close to EPA numbers. Sometimes a bit better, sometime a bit worse.

On my current tank according to the computer setting "since fill-up" and I've used 1/2 tank of fuel since last week, I am averaging 20.6 in the city. But, it's been hot, I've been running the air and have lots of starts, stops w/idling in between. Instantaneous MPG readout can read as high as 26-27 mpg, but that's just a small point in time, the average is the more accurate indication. (car has 7500 miles on the odo)
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but, but.... 44 mpg :D




in all fairness I agree I can't cherry pick as I average nowhere near that on a daily....

That was a drive with tail winds in my favour, and I was going 120 to 130 when traffic allowed, then the rest slower which brought the average down to 99km/h as you can see

Why i posted that is because yes, you can acheive stupid high numbers, but on average something like what I managed there won't happen very often... maybe i'd be able to pull that on a full tank a couple of times if the conditions favored
 
Strange Mud

Strange Mud

Autocross Champion
Location
Small Town CT
Car(s)
Assorted
danall said:
I did not calculate this, this GTI does have an on board computer that calculates it ya know.
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idk about your cars math but many folks that have checked it's math have found it to be exaggerated. I still am impressed by what I get.



mine exaggerates by 5-7% or around 2+ mpg
 
Faceman

Faceman

Autocross Newbie
Location
Long Island
Car(s)
'17 GSW 4Mo
Strange Mud said:
idk about your cars math but many folks that have checked it's math have found it to be exaggerated. I still am impressed by what I get.



mine exaggerates by 5-7% or around 2+ mpg
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Same here.
 
heiney9

heiney9

Go Kart Champion
Location
Illinois
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport DSG
I also admit upon self reflection I drive with a heavy foot. I can't help myself in either GTi because the cars are just so responsive and so fun to drive. :D My mileage suffers because of my driving style.

FTR, When I have driven it more like the average person on occasion and I can get close to the EPA in the City.

But I still feel the math has to be done and not to rely on the ob computer and that a true representation of MPG is over an entire tank, not just a single trip.

My gf currently is the majority driver in my MK5 GTi and she goes much longer between fill-ups than I ever did, but she has a much lighter foot than I do. I'm vroom, vroom and she's putt, putt....lol
 
southpawboston

southpawboston

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Somerville, MA
What is a heavy foot when you're driving on an interstate? 95% of the time you're keeping a steady speed (or should be). I like to drive with a lead foot when and where it makes sense-- on back roads, when overtaking, or when accelerating from a stop. As long as I mix about 95% of steady interstate travel into a trip, it doesn't matter how hard I drive the remaining 5% of the time, I'll still get over 35 mpg (1.8 TSI) and have seen as much as 41 mpg on a tank of gas (hand calculated, and over the course of ~400 miles).

On the other hand, I live in a dense urban environment, and when the car isn't driven outside the city limits, with trips averaging less than a mile or two in length, and idles in traffic 50% of the time, my mileage has been as low as 14 mpg over an entire tank of gas.
 
Strange Mud

Strange Mud

Autocross Champion
Location
Small Town CT
Car(s)
Assorted
CSB: I know the car exaggerates MPG so I've been using OBD11 to adjust the readings to be accurate. Somehow I'm disappointed that I'm not hitting 40 mpg on the display on one of the rides I used to see it on. I knew it wasn't a real number but seeing 40 (since start) always gave me a smile. I'm sure it's the same thought process that when you see something for $9.99 and happily think "Wow, less than $10!"


Mud
 
heiney9

heiney9

Go Kart Champion
Location
Illinois
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport DSG
southpawboston said:
What is a heavy foot when you're driving on an interstate? 95% of the time you're keeping a steady speed (or should be). I like to drive with a lead foot when and where it makes sense-- on back roads, when overtaking, or when accelerating from a stop. As long as I mix about 95% of steady interstate travel into a trip, it doesn't matter how hard I drive the remaining 5% of the time, I'll still get over 35 mpg (1.8 TSI) and have seen as much as 41 mpg on a tank of gas (hand calculated, and over the course of ~400 miles).

On the other hand, I live in a dense urban environment, and when the car isn't driven outside the city limits, with trips averaging less than a mile or two in length, and idles in traffic 50% of the time, my mileage has been as low as 14 mpg over an entire tank of gas.
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1.8T is a different motor. It should get a bit better mileage than the 2.0T. It seems when I am on the highway I am the only one using cruise, which means I constantly have to speed up to pass people or slow down because someone is riding in the left lane in my blind spot for quite awhile. I love cruise on the highway, but I am constantly unable to drive a steady speed because of all the jack holes on the road who can't keep constant speed, hang in the left lane or are completely oblivious and incompetent, and/or heavy trucking traffic.

If I was on a stretch of road out in Wyoming or Montana and I was one of the few drivers I bet I'd kill it with MPG. Urban area's, deep city traffic is not kind to MPG.

Where I live congestion and cluelessness is the norm on the highway. I can't tell you how many people I pass with the cruise set, only to have them pass me in the next 10 miles and then they slow down and I pass them (again cruise set) in the next 10 miles and this goes on and on and on.
 
A

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
The car's computer is like a home scale--it may not be accurate, but it's accurate to itself and is useful for comparison purposes.

So if you want to know what the difference is driving it on a daily commute vs a spirited country drive on the weekend, feel free to use the car's computer and don't worry about whether it's as accurate as a NASA tool.

Those who harp about "but it's not accurate!" are just knobs who can't stand the world around them.
 
heiney9

heiney9

Go Kart Champion
Location
Illinois
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport DSG
Some people want fictional information, some people want real information. I fall in the latter.
 
A

adam1991

Banned
Location
USA
heiney9 said:
Some people want fictional information, some people want real information. I fall in the latter.
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Like I said, once you know the device, you can get real information out of it.

How badly your right foot affects the mileage or not is very real information, and is readily available from the car's computer.
 
D

danall

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
USA
idk about your cars math but many folks that have checked it's math have found it to be exaggerated. I still am impressed by what I get.

mine exaggerates by 5-7% or around 2+ mpg
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I did not know that. I will check mine...I assumed it would be more accurate that the old manual fill up/check miles/gallons method as consistent fillup levels introduce an element of error. Here in ORegon we can't pump our own gas, so I just have to hope the fill up is consistent each time...to me that seems like a big variable that can skew results.


On the other hand WTF is it with VW intentionally programing that mileage computer to give erroneous (optimisitic) MPG figures...that totally sucks.


But then on the other hand i could care less if i actually got x MPG vs y, i just got kinda sucked into this discussion with naysayers saying x mpg city is not possible whereas my computer is telling a certain story that may be alternate facts??


I check to see how my computer reads relative to manual calcs and post at a later date.
 
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