Winter tires - Why you should think diffrent

[amullo]

I havent seen any thread on the subject, so I figure Ill start one.
What do you know about wintertires?
When do you need them?
What types are there?

To start with, here are the basics.

1. The tire needs to be marked with the "snowflake inside a mountain" - This indicated that the rubbercompund doesnt stiffen at low temperatures.
2. A winter tire is a tire matrked with M+S on the sidewall - The M+S mark stands for "Mud and Snow". The thread on the tire is course to offer better grip in snow and mud conditions.
3. P for passenger, L for light duty vehicle.
4. Narrow tires offer better grip - 195 is optimum for the Golf Mk7. The reason is that a wider tire will float (aquaplane) on both water, snowslush and snow. It will also lessen the surface weight per square inch. You want a high number to cut through to a solid surface under the loose snow, slush or water.
5. Higher sidewalls give better grip - The tire needs to be able to flex to let the rubber follow the ground. It will also give a better "feel" and communicate earlier when the tire is slipping or about to slip.
6/7 Rims - Alloys are much more common then before for wintertires and this is down to driver choice, but steel rims offer better value for money, but lets face it.. Alloys look great! The Dezent RE I´ve chosen for our car is a "winter" alloy rim that is designed to not pick up snow and has extra layers of paint to prevent chipping from gravel.
8 Load index (numbered) - To coincide with VWs recommendations
9. Speed classification indicates how fast the tire is approved for - To coincide with VW´s recommendations


Lets take our car.
A 2.0 TDI GT that came from the factory on 17" rims on summer tires. Using the stock size of 225/45-17 for wintertires would, givven the rules above, be wrong.

We went with a 195/65-15 combination, Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 friction tires and Dezent RE 15" rims.

OK, so then its time to think about what kind of wintertire you need. There are roughly three diffrent types.
1. Studded winter M+S tires with the snowflake mark.
- Generally, these tires are the best for true winterroads and roads often covered in ice, but local laws may prevent their use. The offer unsurpased grip on ice and ice/snow combinations. They offer medium grip in the wet and on dry roads.
EG: Nokian Hakkapelitta 8, Michelin X-ice North
Conditions like these

2. Nordic friction M+S tires with the snowflake mark.
- These tires are made for nordic conditions with snow and ice, but not much water. They excel (like their studded cousin) at winterroads that are white with snow or glazed with ice. Grip on dry and wet roads are generally at medium levels.
EG: Nokian Hakkapelitta R, Michelin X-ice, Continental VikingContact5
Conditins like these

3. Continental friction or "warm winter" M+S tires with the snowflake mark.
-These tires are made for winters that are wet and slush, but you still need to go north sometimes. They offer alot more grip then summertires in the wet, snow and ice, but less grip on snow and ice then the above tires. The perfect choice for drivers who generally see snow at the side of the road, but not on it. Think New Jersey or Southern England, Not Maine, Canada or Northen Scotland.
Something like this

Then there is the 4:th option.
Friction och M+S tires without the snowflake. Also called "year around" or similar to give them the appearance of being able to cope with all conditions, summer to winter.
These tires are generally pretty bad at everything. They offer low to medium grip in all situations. To be avoided.
Unless you want this

- That covers the basics, but Im sure Ive forgotten some stuff that is obvious to me.. Ive been driving on winterroads in Sweden since I was 17, so some stuff I just take for granted.

EDIT!!
A note to those who have wintertires or buy them new.
Remember to put them on BEFORE you need them. Summer storage will harden the outer surface of the rubber slightly and tire manufacturers all recommend that you drive your wintertires for atleast 500 kilometers/300 miles on non-winter roads (EG: before the snow comes down) to loosen the rubber up again. That way the rubber will be pliable and soft for when the firts blizzard hits. (this is actually true of summer tires aswell.. All new tires need breaking in unless brand spanking new from the factory. Used tires need a "reconditioning" to bring new rubber to the surface)

For special note to owners buying studded tires new
Studded tires need their studs to be fully seated before offering maximum grip. Its recommended that you take the first 500km/300 miles on your studded tires carefully and not exceed a speed of 110kph/65 mph to allow the studs to seat fully in your tires. Remember that exceeding 130kph/80MPH may cause the studs to rip from the tire because of the centrifigual force.

 

[Dagobah]

Very useful info Amullo, as I am in the process of sorting out my winter wheels and tyres this weekend. Thinking of going for Continental TS850 on a 16" alloy.

 

[GTI-7-Performance]

With regard to studded tyres. These are basically a none-starter for general use. Not only are they banned from many roads, as they destroy the road surface, They offer reduced grip on snow-free surfaces. The car with them mounted must display a sign to that effect and is limited to 40KPH (here in Switzerland anyway)...

 

[amullo]

With regard to studded tyres. These are basically a none-starter for general use. Not only are they banned from many roads, as they destroy the road surface, They offer reduced grip on snow-free surfaces. The car with them mounted must display a sign to that effect and is limited to 40KPH (here in Switzerland anyway)...

I think your thinking of snowchains?

Snowchains offer a massive amount of grip on heavily snowed over roads and on ice, but do so with very adverse effects on handling in dry or even plowed conditions.
They should be utilized only sparringly and in conditions when even 4x4/4motion will not be enough unless you "chain up". I´ve drivven with chains on occasion, but it was on unplowed backroads following in convoy behind a single plowtruck over mountain passes.

 

[enkil]

Thanks for the info

 

[DW58]

Thanks, a most helpful and interesting thread.

 

[amullo]

Our Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 tires performed flawlessy during our first winter and I´ve just put them back on for the coming months.

Safe driving!

 

[golfdave]

Re using narrow tyres..............

These days it is not necessary to go narrower as the tyre company's make way better tyres than when that rule was made up.

I am fitting the same 225/45 R17 for summer & winter tyres, also same size & width alloys & similar weights. The main reason for this is that the steering feel & contact area for grip remain more or less the same & therefore there is not as big a change in the handling characteristics of the car when swapping from summers to winter.

 

[amullo]

Re using narrow tyres..............

These days it is not necessary to go narrower as the tyre company's make way better tyres than when that rule was made up.

I am fitting the same 225/45 R17 for summer & winter tyres, also same size & width alloys & similar weights. The main reason for this is that the steering feel & contact area for grip remain more or less the same & therefore there is not as big a change in the handling characteristics of the car when swapping from summers to winter.

VW themselves recommended the 195/65-15 tire size for our car.
The only noticable diffrence is lower tire sound and better fueleconomy compared to the summer tires (yeah.. strange how that works)

But you must also choose the correct tires for your geographic area. If you live in a country that gets mostly rain and only a few days of real snow a year, then the width of the tire makes a big diffrence only in aquaplane conditions. If you, like me, live with snow, slush and ice, then its a no brainer to go with a narrower tire.

About 10 years ago, the Mondeo was delivered with 195/65-15 tires and that was a nightmare in the winter. Changing the tires over to 175/14 made a HUGE diffrence, Even Ford said so. Just an example.

 

[gogolf1]

For summer I have 205/55 r16 alloy...
and for winter it will be 195/65 r15 steel.

I'm hoping for better comfort and more quiet ride (general high speed road noise, potholes)...

 

[golfdave]

VW themselves recommended the 195/65-15 tire size for our car.
The only noticable diffrence is lower tire sound and better fueleconomy compared to the summer tires (yeah.. strange how that works)

But you must also choose the correct tires for your geographic area. If you live in a country that gets mostly rain and only a few days of real snow a year, then the width of the tire makes a big diffrence only in aquaplane conditions. If you, like me, live with snow, slush and ice, then its a no brainer to go with a narrower tire.

VW winter tyres catalogue Germany edition also show alloy & winter tyre packages for the Golf MK7 & Variant in sizes 205/55 R16, & 205/50 R17. For the Golf MK7 GTI & R they show 205/50 R17 & 225/40 R18.

Not that narrow!

I have loads of rain to drive through on my "summers" at full width 225/45 R17, if I have problems at that width which is the OEM size for my car then do I go narrower for the summers then? This would be against the advice for the car from the factory!

Like I said before, going narrow is not that advantageous as it used to be!

However.......if your car is an S or SE spec & came with 195/65 R15 or 205/55 R16 wheels from the factory then you could use this size for the winter & then go wider to 225/45 R17 for your summers! I did this for my current car, but do not like the change in handling!

 

[Korab]

todays winter tires, with their modern compounds and unidirectional tread patterns, are still better than the narrower tires of yesterday.

Tire design and materials are light years better than they were 20, or even 10 years ago.

 

[amullo]

VW winter tyres catalogue Germany edition also show alloy & winter tyre packages for the Golf MK7 & Variant in sizes 205/55 R16, & 205/50 R17. For the Golf MK7 GTI & R they show 205/50 R17 & 225/40 R18.

Not that narrow!

I have loads of rain to drive through on my "summers" at full width 225/45 R17, if I have problems at that width which is the OEM size for my car then do I go narrower for the summers then? This would be against the advice for the car from the factory!

Like I said before, going narrow is not that advantageous as it used to be!

However.......if your car is an S or SE spec & came with 195/65 R15 or 205/55 R16 wheels from the factory then you could use this size for the winter & then go wider to 225/45 R17 for your summers! I did this for my current car, but do not like the change in handling!

Our GT has the recommended thread width that came down from VW, not something "I thought up myself". The car was delivered with the Nokian Hakapeliitta R2 winter tires in the recommended 195/65-15 size (We didnt spec the size, the dealership took care of that) fitted on Dezent RE alloy wheels. The summer tires we also got with the car where carefully wrapped in plastic and placed in the trunk after folding the rear seats. Those where the GT spec 225/45-17 on OEM Dijon rims.

The 195 wheels did not in any way adversly affect the cars handling! I want that to be very clear. Possible the steering in slightly lighter in low speed, but fuel economy is better and tire noise is down compared to the summer tires. As for newer wider tires being OK, I can slightly agree with that. My BMW rolls on 16" rims because the brakes are too small to fit 15". That is the reason the GTi/GTD come with recommendations about winters being 16" or even 17" instead of 15". They cant fit 15" on there.

But basic physics is basic physics.. A narrow tire will not aquaplane as easily as a wide one, givven the same thread pattern and wear.

 

[golfdave]

Our GT has the recommended thread width that came down from VW, not something "I thought up myself". The car was delivered with the Nokian Hakapeliitta R2 winter tires in the recommended 195/65-15 size (We didnt spec the size, the dealership took care of that) fitted on Dezent RE alloy wheels. The summer tires we also got with the car where carefully wrapped in plastic and placed in the trunk after folding the rear seats. Those where the GT spec 225/45-17 on OEM Dijon rims.

The 195 wheels did not in any way adversly affect the cars handling! I want that to be very clear. Possible the steering in slightly lighter in low speed, but fuel economy is better and tire noise is down compared to the summer tires. As for newer wider tires being OK, I can slightly agree with that. My BMW rolls on 16" rims because the brakes are too small to fit 15". That is the reason the GTi/GTD come with recommendations about winters being 16" or even 17" instead of 15". They cant fit 15" on there.

But basic physics is basic physics.. A narrow tire will not aquaplane as easily as a wide one, givven the same thread pattern and wear.

If you look at the VW catalogue that I mentioned they do the GT Dijion alloys in a "narrow" winter width & fit 205/50 R17 tyres............this is the preferred option for the GT spec cars if sticking to OEM & not the narrower 195/65 R15......

Of course narrow tyres make the handling lighter etc..I have found it a bit of a pain "re adjusting" each time so now chose the same size tyres for winter & summer.

Again of course a narrow tyre with perform better re aquaplaning than a wide tyre with the same tread pattern.................but the wide tyres of today have very different patterns than narrow tyres to counter act this & they perform as good as a narrow tyres! Where I live aquaplaning is more of a problem on summer tyres & the car comes with 225/45 R14 from the factory...........so sticking with that same size for winter will be fine for me.

Over here if I was to fit narrower tyres for summer than the OEM to get the best for aquaplaning then the insurance company would like to know.......I could fit the size 225/45 R17 for winters & then go bigger & wider say 235 say on an R18 alloy for summer..............but not for me.

 

[golfdave]

Forgot to add......

usually fit you want to go narrower & smaller for winters then down one size in diameter & one size in width..............that would mean 205/55/R16..............& for those who want to fit bigger summers then up one size in diameter & up one size in width...........anything more than this affects the handling even more!

Personally I wouldn't have fitted 195/65 R15 winters when your car comes with 225/45 R17 as summers............

But it's your car, .............just please be aware that posting as you did could leave other people to do the same as you, which is not strictly best practice in all countries.

BTW in winter I am more concerned about Black Ice which we get lots of! A wider proper winter tyre will get more grip than a narrow tyre of the same design! Also remember that with a wider tyre you can run a lower tyre pressure which is better for more grip! Look at all those big balloon tyres on big 4x4's for driving over snow in Iceland, even where I am same 4x4's do this for winter (not as big thought)!