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Will I hate a manual?

It's Sam

Ready to race!
Location
New Rochelle, New York
Ride
2017 GTI SE
Hi, OP here with an update.

For one, I went with a GTI over an R for a few reasons, availability being the main (and price a close second), but I'm sticking with the DSG this time. There were a lot of nice manuals in the area, but all of the input here, combined with the good memories I had of my DSG, I felt like it was better to go this route.

Thank you for all of the input. Especially as it can help others answer this question for themselves in the future.

Picking up the car tonight and looking forward to the DSG farts on the way home...

I'm using Tapatalk.
 

pnwbrdr

Ready to race!
Location
WA
Shifts are basically free with a DSG and that gives the driver more flexibility. For example, T11 at Laguna Seca and Off Ramp at Buttonwillow are both very slow turns. I can simply pull a paddle to downshift into 2nd for those turns. That allows me to keep the revs up and the turbo spooled so that I come out of those turns with a speed advantage over a car that has remained in 3rd due to the tradeoff between the time it takes to downshift versus the added exit speed making the shift not worth it.

In terms of higher gears, I don't recall the last time I shifted past 5th gear on a road course in my car. Now a 7 speed tops out about 130 in 5th versus 137 for my 6 speed, and the only time I came close to that speed was on the Fontana Roval (edit: I'll come close the next time I am at the Ridge too, assuming it's not raining). You're likely to need a stage 3 car for top end gearing to be much of a concern.

For autocross, I typically remain in 2nd. However, there have been occasions on a fast course where I can exceed the 58mph max speed in 2nd. If I had a manual, the cost of the shift and subsequent downshift would not be worth a brief moment in 3rd and I'd just let the car bounce off the rev limited. But with DSG shifts are free for the taking.
As far as the gearing goes... I was more referring to top speed per gear... I have not seen a comparison between the 6mt and the 7dsg, but usually once you start adding gears, they start spacing things out - ie top speed for each gear goes down - meaning more shifts.

Totally get it with the "free shifts", but downshifting while braking can be handled pretty easily with a manual
 

Cliff

Ready to race!
Location
SF Bay Area
As far as the gearing goes... I was more referring to top speed per gear... I have not seen a comparison between the 6mt and the 7dsg, but usually once you start adding gears, they start spacing things out - ie top speed for each gear goes down - meaning more shifts.

Totally get it with the "free shifts", but downshifting while braking can be handled pretty easily with a manual
My 3 pedal friends remain in a higher gear than I do in certain situations because downshifting takes time.

I have only encountered the 2 tracks that I mentioned where the straights are long enough to threaten the rev limiter in 5th. Top speed in the higher gears is generally not a concern for HPDE drivers. If you're racing and the class rules allow you to change gearing then you will do whatever is required to be competitive.

I constructed gearing calculators in Excel way back when and have attached a screencap of a version comparing the 6 speed and 7 speed DSG. Speeds are dependent on tire size, so I plugged in the OE size. The 7 speed would be massively annoying for autocross, but fortunately I don't have one.
 

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olds350

Passed Driver's Ed
My 3 pedal friends remain in a higher gear than I do in certain situations because downshifting takes time.

I have only encountered the 2 tracks that I mentioned where the straights are long enough to threaten the rev limiter in 5th. Top speed in the higher gears is generally not a concern for HPDE drivers. If you're racing and the class rules allow you to change gearing then you will do whatever is required to be competitive.

I constructed gearing calculators in Excel way back when and have attached a screencap of a version comparing the 6 speed and 7 speed DSG. Speeds are dependent on tire size, so I plugged in the OE size. The 7 speed would be massively annoying for autocross, but fortunately I don't have one.

Do you know the gearing for the 6 spd manual? Be interesting to see the diff to the 7spd DSG
 

olds350

Passed Driver's Ed
Not on the same document, no. But I was curious to compare the 6MT gearing with the DSG when detailed specifications for the 2016's were released.

I found the gear ratios and that's pretty much spot on to what I figured. Gotta tell you I'm curious about 4th/5th gear numbers, don't make sense, 5th gear goes back up? The other webpage I found has the same gearing numbers. That would mean a shift from 4th to 5th would make the revs go up, which it doesn't. Think there's a misprint somewhere, unless the final drive comes into play.


How does that work work there are 2 final drive values; final 1 = 4.24, final 2 = 3.27? Someone needs to educate me on how this works...
 

Cliff

Ready to race!
Location
SF Bay Area
I found the gear ratios and that's pretty much spot on to what I figured. Gotta tell you I'm curious about 4th/5th gear numbers, don't make sense, 5th gear goes back up? The other webpage I found has the same gearing numbers. That would mean a shift from 4th to 5th would make the revs go up, which it doesn't. Think there's a misprint somewhere, unless the final drive comes into play.


How does that work work there are 2 final drive values; final 1 = 4.24, final 2 = 3.27? Someone needs to educate me on how this works...
5th and 6th use the lower numeric final drive number. It's an overdrive for fuel economy. You can see the final drive change reflected in the speeds in gear.
 

Cliff

Ready to race!
Location
SF Bay Area
So how does it work? What changes and where?
If you are talking about physical location in the car, the differential and final drive is inside the transmission housing for both the DSG and manual transmissions. The chart shows the final drive gearing associated with 5th and 6th gears in the column header while the rows show the car's speed for the engine speed shown in the row header.
 

GoLfUnV

Ready to race!
Location
Atlanta
Everyone suggests that the DSG is a faster track car, yet nobody recognizes that the fastest Golf around the ring (Clubsport S) was 6mt.
I was not aware Clubsport was available with DSG. :confused:
Nurburgring is far from average tracks, most of us would get to play/race on. Cars that hold "ring" records would not be as dominant on shorter and more technical tracks around the US.

OP, congrats on the new car, but you made a bad choice :)
 

ourlee

Ready to race!
Location
central NJ
My son has a 17 manual gti. I LOVE when he visits, I drive his car the entire weekend. Go manual til you’re too old to operate it.
 

sidepieceracing

New member
Location
NJ
I just got my new (to me) golf r 2017 Mt back from a massive rebuild/uplift. I drove 3 days with a 11k mile old stock clutch and it was terrible. I'm now 30 miles into (babying) a South Bend Stg3 Endurance clutch ... And the action and feel is amazing...

I was worried about the clutch feel after those first 3 days ... But 2 months later my opinion is totally changed. Awesome choice... Not to mention, the anti-roll feature makes this the easiest manual car I've ever driven
 

translux

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Chitown
My sentiments are similar to what has already been covered but my 2 cents are.

1. The manual in stock form is not very good. A couple minor tweaks and you can reduce the throw and get some feel and precision in the gear selector.

2. The clutch is a whole other story. Stock it’s lifeless with little in the way of feedback. Sure it’s easy to drive but it’s zero fun for an enthusiast. To ad insult to injury it’s going to slip even if you stay stock. Any tune will accelerate slipping.

3.The only remedy is a new clutch. Given the complexity of the install and the high cost for a replacement and your looking at a min $2k all in.

4. Beyond the cost for the new clutch all the SMF-single mass flywheels-IMHO compromise the comfort and refinement that I bought the R for over something like an RS. Clutches that use the factory dual mass flywheel appear to hold more power but in many cases not enough for stage 2.

So in the end you have to choose reduced performance to maintain refinement or give some of this up for performance.
If I had to do it all over again I’d go DSG or get a different car. Trouble is I can’t think of one that ticks all the boxes.
 

GTI-CAL

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Bay Area
My sentiments are similar to what has already been covered but my 2 cents are.

1. The manual in stock form is not very good. A couple minor tweaks and you can reduce the throw and get some feel and precision in the gear selector.
For about $70 bucks spent and you can have a good feeling manual trans.
$55 for euro short shifter
$10 clutch stop
$5 clutch fluid for the cdv removal
This is what i spent and i mostly enjoy this manual driving experience. Doesn't compare to a honda manual driving experience though(integra, rsx-s, s2000)
 

KevinC

Go Kart Champion
1. The manual in stock form is not very good. A couple minor tweaks and you can reduce the throw and get some feel and precision in the gear selector.
VW manual shift linkage and overall feel has been pretty crappy dating back to the original Beetle.

VW went to a cable-shifted setup when the Corrado VR6 came out. It was REALLY awful - crazy-long throws, and as one review described it, "like rowing a stick through a box of Kleenex". But they've gotten better gradually ever since. I really don't mind the linkage & feel on my R at all, in bone stock form. I did short-shift kits on some of my older VW's and was never happy with the result - there were always tradeoffs.

So my 2c is to try the stock linkage first before deciding you need to add a short shift kit. I've done the CDV removal on my last few BMWs, and on those cars there was almost zero difference to me. Might turn out better on an R? Maybe, I dunno.

Bottom line - I don't think you'll hate a manual for the shift feel. Is it great? No. Is it OK? IMHO, yes.
 

translux

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Chitown
For about $70 bucks spent and you can have a good feeling manual trans.
$55 for euro short shifter
$10 clutch stop
$5 clutch fluid for the cdv removal
This is what i spent and i mostly enjoy this manual driving experience. Doesn't compare to a honda manual driving experience though(integra, rsx-s, s2000)
I also removed the return spring at the pedal and changed to more ridged shifter bushings. All helped but still not great. Given the Porsche link, you'd think they could have done a better job.
NSX & S2000 for me will always be the benchmark.

But the terrible clutch is unconscionable.
 
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GTI-CAL

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Bay Area
I also removed the return spring at the pedal and changed to more ridged shifter bushings. All helped but still not great. Given the Porsche link, you'd think they could have done a better job.
NSX & S2000 for me will always be the benchmark.

But the terrible clutch is unconscionable.
I left the return spring....without it, the pedal was too springy and made it harder for consistent smooth shifts. I actually like the oem clutch feel on our cars... or i just got use to it.
 

TraceMe

New member
Location
San Diego
Ride
2018 Golf R 6MT
Hey, I ended up going with the SouthBend Stage 3 clutch and it really made the whole manual experience fantastic!

I coupled it with a BFI Weighted Shift Knob and it really made the shifts feel so much better. I am stage 2, so I needed the beefier clutch, but even if I wasn't stage 2, I would seriously consider upgrading to this clutch right out of the box with or without mods. It is how the car should have come factory.
 
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