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Will I hate a manual?

TrinivdubOG

Ready to race!
Location
Caribbean
Irrespective of the general 6MT vs. DSG arguments, the one thing you can't get around is that, judging against other transmissions in the same category, the R's 6MT drivetrain is mediocre, whereas the DSG is fairly decent.

The 6MT's main problem is the weak clutch, but nobody would ever claim the shift action to be best in class either.

The DSG's only real problem is that its factory programing, which is too eager to reach a high gear and quite reluctant to downshift, is out of step with the R's character. It's also worse than the dual clutch programming in other VAG cars I've driven extensively (Tiguan, Audi Q5), and not nearly as good as BMW (M2, M3, M6). Fortunately this can be much improved with aftermarket TCU programming. Or by rowing the flappy paddles yourself.

So for this car at least, the decision isn't so much between 6MT and DSG as a matter of personal preference — or principle! — but between a substantially flawed 6MT and a pretty good DSG.

By the way, I'm a lifelong stick shifter who bought a DSG Golf R — although not for the reasons outlined above, which weren't generally clear at the time I bought my 2015 R. I also had, and still have, an M3 track car with a 6MT, and thought I'd explore the newer technology's benefits with my daily.

Like i said that's "your opinion" for me after i did my upgrades the feel of my shifter is actually pretty good, to the point where i have gotten 4.0s to 0-60 (stage 2), yes its nowhere close to a dsg but for me that's quick enough.
 

TrinivdubOG

Ready to race!
Location
Caribbean
After buying a manual R, my recommendation is to get the DSG. I'll echo all of the complaints about the manual trans others have given in this thread.
my friend who has a dsg, every time he drives my car wishes he got the manual instead, like I've been saying its a matter of preference and personal opinion.

OP only you can make that call, test drive both!
 

Charlotte.:R

Ready to race!
Location
Charlotte
Ride
'18 Golf R 6MT
I wasn't happy with the OEM linkage, but a diesel geek STS and metal shift cable bracket with brass bushings and a heavier knob were significant improvements.

My wife has a B9 A4 with the DSG, and it's nice enough, fitting for the cars character, but I prefer the manual. I don't like that despite being in sport and "dynamic" mode, the transmission automatically upshifts.

It's all about preference, and nobody can really answer this for you. As others have implied, the fact that you're asking this leads me to believe you'd be happier with the DSG.
 

NCM

Ready to race!
Location
Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Ride
2015 Golf R
Like i said that's "your opinion"
Correct.

But I'll tell you one thing. With the accumulated collective knowledge of the R that now exists after its 5 model years in this market, if I were really set on buying a manual shift car I don't think I'd be looking at the R. Not that there's a huge choice of manual cars to choose from anymore. :-(

Although it's in a significantly higher price range — when new, anyway — I'd probably be checking out an M2.

But note the repeated use of "I". YMMV.

Neil
 

GoLfUnV

Ready to race!
Location
Atlanta
Do you aspire to be a "Rock Star" (6MT) or "Karaoke Singer" (DSG)?

I've owned two DSG cars, in the past few years... Wife daily drove JSW and i had mk5 GTI. GTI lastew whole 3 months, before it was sold and replaced whit a 6MT car.

If I was planning to competitively race, I would get a DSG car.
DSG is by far superior when it comes to performance. It will make average drive look like a race card driver.
Also, if i had a second "fun/weekend car" with a MT, I may consider daily DSG car.

Looking at mk5 and mk6 used car values MT cars sell at premium over DSG cars.

As far as clutch is concerned, if car is left stock clutch will be fine for a very long time. Tuned cars will need a new clutch, as a tune of 1500-2000.
On another note, DSG clutch pack handles increased power just fine, at least short term, but tuned ECUs are usually paired wiht Tuned TCU ($800). on top of that DSG
requires a flush 30-40K miles at $300 each. Not sure if there is premium cost on the used market for DSG, but when new its around $900. For argument sake 3 DSG flushes and TCU tune total $1700, which is very close to the cost of upgraded clutch on 6MT.

I opted out for slower 6MT golf r, even with 90 minute/30 mile daily commute, with no "regerts."

Good luck!
 

jimlloyd40

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Phoenix
Ride
2018 SE DSG
Do you aspire to be a "Rock Star" (6MT) or "Karaoke Singer" (DSG)?

I've owned two DSG cars, in the past few years... Wife daily drove JSW and i had mk5 GTI. GTI lastew whole 3 months, before it was sold and replaced whit a 6MT car.

If I was planning to competitively race, I would get a DSG car.
DSG is by far superior when it comes to performance. It will make average drive look like a race card driver.
Also, if i had a second "fun/weekend car" with a MT, I may consider daily DSG car.

Looking at mk5 and mk6 used car values MT cars sell at premium over DSG cars.

As far as clutch is concerned, if car is left stock clutch will be fine for a very long time. Tuned cars will need a new clutch, as a tune of 1500-2000.
On another note, DSG clutch pack handles increased power just fine, at least short term, but tuned ECUs are usually paired wiht Tuned TCU ($800). on top of that DSG
requires a flush 30-40K miles at $300 each. Not sure if there is premium cost on the used market for DSG, but when new its around $900. For argument sake 3 DSG flushes and TCU tune total $1700, which is very close to the cost of upgraded clutch on 6MT.

I opted out for slower 6MT golf r, even with 90 minute/30 mile daily commute, with no "regerts."

Good luck!
DSG tune on the Cobb platform is $450 not $800. And the schedule to change the DSG fluid is every 40,000 miles.
 

Backtrack2015

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Texas
Since the M2 got mentioned: I just wanted to say that I cross-shopped the M2 Competition (even had a small deposit on it) with 6MT. Overall it was probably a much better 6MT (better syncs) but the auto rev-match feature could not be defeated without fully killing the nannies. That put me off a bit. I ultimately felt I would have just as much fun with a GTI or an R as my daily.
 

Charlotte.:R

Ready to race!
Location
Charlotte
Ride
'18 Golf R 6MT
The M2, and even the M240, are on my short list for a second car in a few years, but being a 2 door, it's not a realistic alternative to the R. I'm on point for dropping off my kids, and sadly, a 2 door just isn't going to work in the carpool lane.
 

GoLfUnV

Ready to race!
Location
Atlanta
DSG tune on the Cobb platform is $450 not $800. And the schedule to change the DSG fluid is every 40,000 miles.
Sure, Cobb TCU may be less expensive, but i used market average(APR+labor to flash). If you want to use your logic... One can also buy TTRS clutch kit for $550, and DIY. Same cost as TCU tune and one DIY DSG flush.

Also, I did say DSG fluid interval is 30-40K, just like most people change their engine oil at shorter intervals (5K vs 10K), they are most likely to do same with DSG fluid, especially if they drive their cars hard.
 

pnwbrdr

Ready to race!
Location
WA
If I was planning to competitively race, I would get a DSG car.
DSG is by far superior when it comes to performance. It will make average drive look like a race card driver.
Also, if i had a second "fun/weekend car" with a MT, I may consider daily DSG car.
Everyone suggests that the DSG is a faster track car, yet nobody recognizes that the fastest Golf around the ring (Clubsport S) was 6mt.

There was a Golf R review video a while back where they interviewed Benny Leuchter, the guy who holds the record, and he stated DSG for the streets, 6MT for the track. And that makes sense. The DSG is going to be easier to drive faster. All you gotta do is mash the pedal and let the car do the rest, shifting gears based on computerized torque calculations. With 6mt you're likely winding gears out a little longer to limit shift points, and lifting throttle on shifts for the sake of smoother driving, which makes it drive a lot differently. I find it's easier to drive an automatic car faster.

-I drive 6mt and wouldn't have it any other way. If there are gears, I want to be in control of them.
 

NCM

Ready to race!
Location
Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Ride
2015 Golf R
The DSG is going to be easier to drive faster. All you gotta do is mash the pedal and let the car do the rest, shifting gears based on computerized torque calculations.
On a race track you drive a DSG using the paddles, selecting shift points to suit the demands of the track much as you would with a manual. You would never want to use automatic mode. But it’s still easier to drive fast, partly because DSG allows you to shift anywhere you want, even mid-corner, without penalty. Data acquisition shows that each upshift costs about a half second with a manual, compared to nothing with the DSG.

But there’s also a weight penalty with the DSG, reportedly around 60 lb (anyone got a real number?), and even worse for a FWD car, it’s all up front, right where you don’t want it. My bet is that if there’s a lap time advantage for the manual version, it’s due to the added ballast.

For RWD cars like BMW’s M2, the manual version is definitely slower on track.

Neil
 

jimlloyd40

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Phoenix
Ride
2018 SE DSG
On a race track you drive a DSG using the paddles, selecting shift points to suit the demands of the track much as you would with a manual. You would never want to use automatic mode. But it’s still easier to drive fast, partly because DSG allows you to shift anywhere you want, even mid-corner, without penalty. Data acquisition shows that each upshift costs about a half second with a manual, compared to nothing with the DSG.

But there’s also a weight penalty with the DSG, reportedly around 60 lb (anyone got a real number?), and even worse for a FWD car, it’s all up front, right where you don’t want it. My bet is that if there’s a lap time advantage for the manual version, it’s due to the added ballast.

For RWD cars like BMW’s M2, the manual version is definitely slower on track.

Neil

With a tuned DSG I would use Sport mode on the track.
 

ATR

Go Kart Champion
Location
Baltimore
Ride
'17 Golf R 6mt
On a race track you drive a DSG using the paddles, selecting shift points to suit the demands of the track much as you would with a manual. You would never want to use automatic mode. But it’s still easier to drive fast, partly because DSG allows you to shift anywhere you want, even mid-corner, without penalty. Data acquisition shows that each upshift costs about a half second with a manual, compared to nothing with the DSG.

But there’s also a weight penalty with the DSG, reportedly around 60 lb (anyone got a real number?), and even worse for a FWD car, it’s all up front, right where you don’t want it. My bet is that if there’s a lap time advantage for the manual version, it’s due to the added ballast.

For RWD cars like BMW’s M2, the manual version is definitely slower on track.

Neil
I'd say the DSG is more like 100-120lbs more than the 6mt.

Specifications and Parts:
Transaxle: 02E300011CK00P $8749.19
Weight: ~229lbs/103.8kg
Source:
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7121065-Everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-the-02E(DQ250)-Direct-Shift-Gearbox#/topics/7121065


02m = 112lbs
Source:
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4664520-I-Was-Able-to-Weigh-these-020-o2o-02A-o2a-02M-o2m-transmissions-Transmission-Weight#/topics/4664520?page=120
 

NCM

Ready to race!
Location
Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Ride
2015 Golf R

pnwbrdr

Ready to race!
Location
WA
On a race track you drive a DSG using the paddles, selecting shift points to suit the demands of the track much as you would with a manual. You would never want to use automatic mode. But it’s still easier to drive fast, partly because DSG allows you to shift anywhere you want, even mid-corner, without penalty. Data acquisition shows that each upshift costs about a half second with a manual, compared to nothing with the DSG.

But there’s also a weight penalty with the DSG, reportedly around 60 lb (anyone got a real number?), and even worse for a FWD car, it’s all up front, right where you don’t want it. My bet is that if there’s a lap time advantage for the manual version, it’s due to the added ballast.

For RWD cars like BMW’s M2, the manual version is definitely slower on track.

Neil
Could be due to the weight, but it doesn't matter... VW and their race car driver clearly thought there was an advantage to a 6mt to get better lap times...

Shifting mid-turn is just poor driving, let's not reinforce that habit... ;)

Gear shift duration matters a whole lot less when doing anything other than stoplight racing. Coming into a turn, gears should be selected while decelerating, so there's no advantage there. The faster upshift after coming out of the turn will help, but only if there's a huge straight in front of you where a shift is actually needed. Longer gearing in a 6mt vs 7dsg might mean that the 6mt can stay in gear until the next turn... like how in autox, mt drivers often pick the right gear and stay in it, not constantly shifting gears...
 

Cliff

Ready to race!
Location
SF Bay Area
Gear shift duration matters a whole lot less when doing anything other than stoplight racing. Coming into a turn, gears should be selected while decelerating, so there's no advantage there. The faster upshift after coming out of the turn will help, but only if there's a huge straight in front of you where a shift is actually needed. Longer gearing in a 6mt vs 7dsg might mean that the 6mt can stay in gear until the next turn... like how in autox, mt drivers often pick the right gear and stay in it, not constantly shifting gears...
Shifts are basically free with a DSG and that gives the driver more flexibility. For example, T11 at Laguna Seca and Off Ramp at Buttonwillow are both very slow turns. I can simply pull a paddle to downshift into 2nd for those turns. That allows me to keep the revs up and the turbo spooled so that I come out of those turns with a speed advantage over a car that has remained in 3rd due to the tradeoff between the time it takes to downshift versus the added exit speed making the shift not worth it.

In terms of higher gears, I don't recall the last time I shifted past 5th gear on a road course in my car. Now a 7 speed tops out about 130 in 5th versus 137 for my 6 speed, and the only time I came close to that speed was on the Fontana Roval (edit: I'll come close the next time I am at the Ridge too, assuming it's not raining). You're likely to need a stage 3 car for top end gearing to be much of a concern.

For autocross, I typically remain in 2nd. However, there have been occasions on a fast course where I can exceed the 58mph max speed in 2nd. If I had a manual, the cost of the shift and subsequent downshift would not be worth a brief moment in 3rd and I'd just let the car bounce off the rev limited. But with DSG shifts are free for the taking.
 
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