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Whiteline Roll Center Kit

Cptnjosh

Ready to race!
Location
Kentuckiana
Car(s)
2017 Sport
I am not asserting increased bump steer. I’m pointing out that changing tie rod length does not address the underlying cause of bump steer introduced when a car is lowered.

My mistake jmason-just seemed like that was part of the conversation here in relation to the whiteline kit, but I guess you meant more generally speaking.


I actually am not experiencing any bumpsteer. I've done lots of testing on roads both smooth and bumping and putting the wheel straight then just letting it go. Car drives straight in both conditions for what I'd consider a significant amount of time (20 seconds or so on a straight road) without any inputs on my end.

Obviously this isn't the most scientific way, but I'm also not pro racing and have a bump steer gauge or anything like that.

Good to hear. Sounds like a good mod considering the price/performance ratio. I am not really interested in increasing swaybar rates, so this might be the ticket to take out a bit of roll while adding Neg camber.

You seem pretty pleased with them...
 

bicycle019

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Denver, CO
I have "ball joint extenders" on my Mk1. Same idea, different name though. They work by moving the pivot point down in relation to the hub, effectively restoring geometry (and roll center) to stock-ish, but at a lower ride height that most of think looks good.

Everything in the front end is connected, so the bump steer issue mentioned is real, and to keep things in line you'd have to lower the connection point from the tie rod to the knuckle to keep it in line (when viewed from the front) with the now lower angled control arm. On the Mk1 chassis you flip the tie rod mounting point from the top of the knuckle to the bottom via drilling through the tapered hole in the knuckle and mounting the tie rod end underneath. EMPI makes a kit for the old Super Beetle that works fine for this. Not sure how to handle this on the Mk7 though, I doubt you use old air-cooled VW parts though... ;)

Typically this is a mod that you'd use for cars that are lowered fairly significantly. The lower you are, the more correction back toward stock geometry can help, this is always assuming that stock geometry is better, which some people might debate. I think this is a mod that might be nice, provided you have already checked a lot of other boxes when it comes to mods (driver, tires, shocks).
 

odessa.filez

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Roswell, GA
Car(s)
2016 GSW 1.8tsi auto
on the bumpsteer issue, Whiteline does make a bumpsteer correction kit. It's on the AU site and you can find it on ebay.

https://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=KCA462

The install instructions show removal of the taper bushing and replacement with a Whiteline taper bushing, which, on the outside appears to be an untapered cylinder...could either stock or Whiteline be reinstalled upside down to facilitate upside down tie rod end?
 

shlimp

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
GA
I actually have the superpro version of this already. Maybe that's why I'm not noticing much bumpsteer.


on the bumpsteer issue, Whiteline does make a bumpsteer correction kit. It's on the AU site and you can find it on ebay.

https://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=KCA462

The install instructions show removal of the taper bushing and replacement with a Whiteline taper bushing, which, on the outside appears to be an untapered cylinder...could either stock or Whiteline be reinstalled upside down to facilitate upside down tie rod end?
 

odessa.filez

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Roswell, GA
Car(s)
2016 GSW 1.8tsi auto
the whiteline kit includes the bushing for the spindle arm. I don't think Superpro does.
 

jmason

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Frederick, MD
Neither kit corrects the classic definition of bump steer, which is caused by the LCA and tie rod moving through different arcs as the front suspension moves up and down. The "bump steer" that is mentioned on the SuperPro website is due to change in toe from deflection of the LCA bushings under hard braking. Not the same thing.
 
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bicycle019

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Denver, CO
Neither kit corrects the classic definition of bump steer, which is caused by the LCA and tie rod moving through different arcs as the front suspension moves up and down. The "bump steer" that is mentioned on the SuperPro website is due to change in toe from deflection of the LCA bushings under hard braking. Not the same thing.

This is 100% correct, none of the kits mentioned above would correct the bumpsteer issues related to installed a ball joint extender. They work to reduce bumpsteer on otherwise stock geometry.
 

odessa.filez

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Roswell, GA
Car(s)
2016 GSW 1.8tsi auto
This is 100% correct, none of the kits mentioned above would correct the bumpsteer issues related to installed a ball joint extender. They work to reduce bumpsteer on otherwise stock geometry.
to be clear, my whole point of mentioning the Whiteline kit was to highlight the possibility of flipping the tie rod end, which you mention in post 63 as a possible mitigant to bumpsteer arising from an extended ball joint. It's not clear that it can be executed, but the instructions for that kit include the pressing out of the stock bushing from the spindle arm and then pressing in a modified bushing. I'm speculating in my post the possibility that the bushing could be flipped, along with the tie rod end.

The lca bushings in the kit serve a different purpose.

https://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/install_guides/Z5394_Z5580.pdf
 
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Sparky589

Go Kart Champion
Bit of a necro bump, but I want to leave a quick warning for anyone thinking of running these alongside a Stoptech BBK (specifically the ST-40 with the 355mm rotor in my case) and the SuperPro aluminum LCA's. Don't know what straw broke the geometry camel's back with this one, but there is a severe clearance issue that will have the Whiteline ball joints eat away at the inside of the rotor once you've turned the wheel about 3/4 of the way to lock. I'm certain these work great on a more stock suspension setup, and I can't say if this will happen on the aluminum hubs the same way it happened with my cast iron ones, but if you've got a setup close to mine learn from my mistake!

At least OE ball joints are cheap from FCP, wish I could say the same about the replacement floating rotors from Stoptech.
 
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shlimp

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
GA
Yeah the Superpro version has that warning about BBK fitment. The whiteline ones however do not. There's a lot of variables but it seems to be in situations with a larger than stock rotors.

I ended up having to take this product off because I also have the ST-40 355mm kit.
 

king526

New member
Location
NY
Car(s)
Audi S3
Just to chime in, I have a S3 with the ST-60 355mm kit and do not have clearance issues with the Whiteline ball joints. I also have the Whiteline control arms so I'm not sure if that's the reason why they are clearing the rotors. However my rotors have been on the car for a while with many track days and do need to get replaced so maybe they might just be thin enough to clear. Next time I get the car up on a lift, I'll take some pics of the fitment.
 

Sparky589

Go Kart Champion
Just to chime in, I have a S3 with the ST-60 355mm kit and do not have clearance issues with the Whiteline ball joints. I also have the Whiteline control arms so I'm not sure if that's the reason why they are clearing the rotors. However my rotors have been on the car for a while with many track days and do need to get replaced so maybe they might just be thin enough to clear. Next time I get the car up on a lift, I'll take some pics of the fitment.
A quick comparison on my end shows the Whiteline LCA's have a lot more caster and less camber than what you get with the SuperPro's. It's either that or the difference between the cast-iron and aluminum hubs, but I'm more inclined to believe it's down to the design of the LCA's. For reference I'm also running 355's on my ST-40 kit, so at least that helps narrow it down some.
 

Raguvian

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Denver
Car(s)
2019 GSW 4MO 6MT
Uh oh, I'm going to be running the 345mm rotors on my car with the Whiteline kit. Can I just turn the wheel lock to lock with the car in the air to check fitment (I wouldn't think it would matter if the car was on the ground or not). Is there any fix to prevent the rubbing?
 
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