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Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles
seems pretty reasonable tbh
In what way? I have no qualms with covering (via insurance) their injuries. Whether legit injuries (or not) is also immaterial to me, that's why I pay for insurance.
But punitive damages? As in not for injury, pain & suffering, trauma, lost wages, or property, etc.. Just as punishment, how is that reasonable?
My wife had a few drinks while out with friends. Her friend had no drinks, and is a licensed driver.

What's your reasonable recommendation? Never drink when you go out, even if you have someone not drinking that can drive? Add every person that might ever drive your car to your insurance? What if I pick up my friends and we go to another friends house to watch a game, and I feel I'm too tired to drive home so my friend drives us back? We get in an accident, my insurance covers everything.

Is it, in your opinion, reasonable that I am sued for being negligent in choosing not to drive tired?
 
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Subliminal

Autocross Champion
Location
Vegas
Car(s)
Slow FWD VW Hatch
In what way? I have no qualms with covering (via insurance) their injuries. Whether legit injuries (or not) is also immaterial to me, that's why I pay for insurance.
But punitive damages? As in not for injury, pain & suffering, trauma, lost wages, or property, etc.. Just as punishment, how is that reasonable?
My wife had a few drinks while out with friends. Her friend had no drinks, and is a licensed driver.

What's your reasonable recommendation? Never drink when you go out, even if you have someone not drinking that can drive? Add every person that might ever drive your car to your insurance? What if I pick up my friends and we go to another friends house to watch a game, and I feel I'm too tired to drive home so my friend drives us back? We get in an accident, my insurance covers everything.

Is it, in your opinion, reasonable that I am sued for being negligent in choosing not to drive tired?
If you were aware she was uninsured when you decided to let her drive, then yes at face value that would be negligence.

I'm not saying that it's enough for them to win punitive damages, but it was a stupid idea at the very least.

If none of you were capable of driving then you take an Uber home. Or better yet don't drink too much if you have to drive home later. Pretty simple stuff
 

Subliminal

Autocross Champion
Location
Vegas
Car(s)
Slow FWD VW Hatch
If you lend someone a chain saw and they cut their own arm off are you negligent?

These are bad questions for this thread tho, we gonna go off the rails quick.
Wow, great argument, you must be a lawyer 🤦‍♂️
If you lend the chain saw to someone who is literally LEGALLY NOT ALLOWED to be operating a chain saw then yes that would also be negligent
 

nosmirk

Go Kart Champion
Location
SoCal
Car(s)
7.5 DSG
The real question is, does Cuzoe's policy cover permissive use?
Mine does, same coverage. Both of us would be liable to damages exceeding the policy. That doesn't equal negligence.

Uninsured driving YOUR OWN car is another matter all together.
 

Subliminal

Autocross Champion
Location
Vegas
Car(s)
Slow FWD VW Hatch
Bro, that was rhetorical question.

Uninsured is not unlicensed, but let's keep at it.
It's illegal to drive without insurance in California

It MAY end up being covered by permissive use, but it will still be a big headache that could've been easily avoided
 

swcrow

Autocross Champion
Location
Virginia
Car(s)
7.5 GTI
We seriously need an Off-topic "Insurance - all barracks lawyers enter here" thread....

In all honesty....it would be AWESOME if one of us really was a lawyer and could set us straight with the standard disclaimer "this is for informational purposes only" mumbo jumbo for cya.....
 

Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles
If you were aware she was uninsured when you decided to let her drive, then yes at face value that would be negligence.

I'm not saying that it's enough for them to win punitive damages, but it was a stupid idea at the very least.

If none of you were capable of driving then you take an Uber home. Or better yet don't drink too much if you have to drive home later. Pretty simple stuff
We were not aware, but our insurance covers others driving our car, which is why we filed the claim on our insurance. Our insurance covered the damage to their cars and will cover their injuries, etc.
Whether or not she had/has auto insurance doesn't make a difference in this case. As @nosmirk mentioned, permissive use. She's covered just like we are.

We're past the "May be covered" by permissive use phase. It was covered, their cars were fixed, ours was replaced. We had just been waiting for the 2 year to mark for injury claims, which we got (along with the civil suits) right at the 2 year mark. Again, I'm good with the injury claims, that's what insurance is for.

And as @JC_451 mentioned, our friend is licensed. Just didn't have her own policy because she did not (at the time) have a car.

I digress, in the interest of on-topic-ness, if the argument is "it's reasonable, but also probably not enough to win in court" then I don't know understand how the argument is still that it's reasonable.
 
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Subliminal

Autocross Champion
Location
Vegas
Car(s)
Slow FWD VW Hatch
We were not aware, but our insurance covers others driving our car, which is why we filed the claim on our insurance. Our insurance covered the damage to their cars and will cover their injuries, etc.

Whether or not she had/has auto insurance doesn't make a difference in this case. As @nosmirk mentioned, permissive use. She's covered just like we are.

And as @JC_451 mentioned, our friend is licensed. Just didn't have her own policy because she did not (at the time) have a car.

I digress, in the interest of on-topic-ness, if the argument is "it's reasonable, but also probably not enough to win in court" then I don't know understand how the argument is still that it's reasonable.
I never said whether or not they would win in court. What I said was that it is reasonable to argue negligence if you were aware she was uninsured (which is how it sounded from your original post).

If you enjoy going through these kinds of things, then by all means - let her keep driving your car lol
 

Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles
I never said whether or not they would win in court. What I said was that it is reasonable to argue negligence if you were aware she was uninsured (which is how it sounded from your original post).

If you enjoy going through these kinds of things, then by all means - let her keep driving your car lol

I did not know with certainty that she was uninsured (not something I make habit of asking my friends honestly, and none of my friends have ever asked me, but we could all be negligent I suppose). But it's not relevant because our insurance covers permissive use. Insurance coverage was never the issue.

My initial post was only to agree with others that an umbrella policy is good to have in the event that claims are made against you that are not otherwise covered by your standard auto/home/whatever insurance. And so I gave an example of the real situation happening right now. Heck we have an umbrella policy so insurance coverage is still not an issue. All we are "going through" is having to forward a document that was left at our door step to our insurance company 🤷‍♂️. It took all of 10 minutes to run it through the scanner and email an attachment.

You suggest that we let random people drive our cars all the time. We do not. But we also have permissive use in our policy so that if a situation comes up that someone else drives one of our cars all parties are covered should something happen. And then my wife made the decision to not drive after a few drinks and instead have her sober friend drive them home. All of which could reasonably called negligent, in your opinion 😁.
 

ChristopherNeil

Autocross Champion
Location
San Diego
Car(s)
MK7 GTI
So anyway, car is clean.
20230605_130612.jpg
 
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