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Turns out I bought a tuned CPO car

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
And this dealership KNOWS it was tuned — they did the tune! (They just didn’t tell me….) That they chose to CPO it certainly shows some level of confidence, I suppose.
No. They just don't give a shit.

First, they'll play dumb and then they'll give you some sort of a song and dance about how CPO doesn't cost them anything (or not much) and they'll try to refund you $5.

At this point they've committed fraud (by CPO'ing the car) and they need to know that you know and that you are ready, willing and able to call VW if they try to screw you.

VW takes CPO fraud seriously and the last thing that the dealership wants is that you complain to VW. That may well prompt an audit on every warranty claim they've submitted over the last years and they'll need to submit the broken parts for most future claims.

Rather than thinking "I want the cost of the CPO back" which used to be about $1500 (I have no clue what it is now), you need to think "what would I have paid for this car from a guy on the street without a warranty"
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
No. They just don't give a shit.

First, they'll play dumb and then they'll give you some sort of a song and dance about how CPO doesn't cost them anything (or not much) and they'll try to refund you $5.

At this point they've committed fraud (by CPO'ing the car) and they need to know that you know and that you are ready, willing and able to call VW if they try to screw you.

VW takes CPO fraud seriously and the last thing that the dealership wants is that you complain to VW. That may well prompt an audit on every warranty claim they've submitted over the last years and they'll need to submit the broken parts for most future claims.

Rather than thinking "I want the cost of the CPO back" which used to be about $1500 (I have no clue what it is now), you need to think "what would I have paid for this car from a guy on the street without a warranty"
I get what you’re saying. But there’s still value in the car having been inspected and the maintenance/repair work done by the dealership before I bought it. I wouldn’t get that from a Joe Schmo private sale. But still, dealerships charge a premium for CPO, so it clearly has a value to them and to me.

Regardless, should I contact VW corporate before talking with the dealership?
 

Johaan

Ready to race!
Location
Atlanta
Given all that was wrong with my CPO (dead battery, oil cooler leak, thermostat housing leak, radiator puncture), I put less stock in CPO inspection than I once did. My car was 16k miles and I think they just slapped the CPO tag on it because of the low miles. I looked at that option for much the same reasons you did.

The fact that this dealer did the tune really hurts any plausible deniability … hope they work it out with you. The relationship goes beyond purchase… and that’s one reason the dealer I got mine from got away with it - they are way outside the city and I don’t use them for anything else.
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
Given all that was wrong with my CPO (dead battery, oil cooler leak, thermostat housing leak, radiator puncture), I put less stock in CPO inspection than I once did. My car was 16k miles and I think they just slapped the CPO tag on it because of the low miles. I looked at that option for much the same reasons you did.

The fact that this dealer did the tune really hurts any plausible deniability … hope they work it out with you. The relationship goes beyond purchase… and that’s one reason the dealer I got mine from got away with it - they are way outside the city and I don’t use them for anything else.
Sure, I suspect the value of the inspection is determined by the quality of the dealership. I do know that they did quite a bit to get my car up to snuff -- battery, brake flush, DSG service, fixed a few broken interior parts, etc.
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
Alright, well I spoke with VW Corporate, and here's a massive detail that has been overlooked: The CPO warranty doesn't cover powertrain anyways because my factory one has expired (2015).
Your vehicle does not have Powertrain warranty, which would cover drivetrain components only. Again, CPO is an extension of what the New Vehicle limited warranty. The New Vehicle Limited Warranty covers all components, except tires, for manufacturing shortcomings in materials and workmanship.

So it would seem issues that could be denied due to ECU modifications wouldn't be covered by the warranty anyways. VW can't deny a warranty claim on, say, the window trim because the ECU was modified.

I'm honestly still annoyed by this, because I'm holding the CPO Warranty booklet that I reviewed carefully before purchase, and in all the "What's Not Covered" information, nothing is mentioned about powertrain. That feels extremely misleading. This whole thing still feels kind of fucky.
 
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jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Alright, well I spoke with VW Corporate, and here's a massive detail that has been overlooked: The CPO warranty doesn't cover powertrain anyways.


So it would seem issues that could be denied due to ECU modifications wouldn't be covered by the warranty anyways. VW can't deny a warranty claim on, say, the window trim because the ECU was modified.

I'm honestly still annoyed by this, because I'm holding the CPO Warranty booklet that I reviewed carefully before purchase, and in all the "What's Not Covered" information, nothing is mentioned about powertrain. That feels extremely misleading. This whole thing still feels kind of fucky.
I don't know if you got good information. CPO warranties generally extend all aspects of the warranty. Here's Car & Drivers magazine explanation.

https://www.caranddriver.com/shoppi...certified-pre-owned-cpo-car-programs-feature/
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
How can I find out for sure? There’s literally no official info from VW that specifically lists what’s covered in the CPO warranty.
I would go to the dealership and sit down with them and have them explain the warranty in detail. Don't forget you have the leverage on them for essentially lying to you about the tune.
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
Alright, well I spoke with VW Corporate, and here's a massive detail that has been overlooked: The CPO warranty doesn't cover powertrain anyways.


So it would seem issues that could be denied due to ECU modifications wouldn't be covered by the warranty anyways. VW can't deny a warranty claim on, say, the window trim because the ECU was modified.

I'm honestly still annoyed by this, because I'm holding the CPO Warranty booklet that I reviewed carefully before purchase, and in all the "What's Not Covered" information, nothing is mentioned about powertrain. That feels extremely misleading. This whole thing still feels kind of fucky.
Of course the cPO warranty covers the powertrain. The person that told you otherwise obviously did not understand the question.

The CPO warranty extends the original warranty for 2 years or 24k miles (for pre '19) - and that includes powertrain.

Some items - like certain trim bits - aren't covered after the first few months anyway, so they wouldn't be covered by the CPO either.

If your car has been flagged - and it would have been if they actually scanned it for the CPO inspection - the VW will "correctly" deny warranty coverage for most powertrain issues.
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
I would go to the dealership and sit down with them and have them explain the warranty in detail. Don't forget you have the leverage on them for essentially lying to you about the tune.
Yes, but I’m trying to get my ducks in a row before I visit so I know if they’re trying to pull one over on me
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
Of course the cPO warranty covers the powertrain. The person that told you otherwise obviously did not understand the question.

The CPO warranty extends the original warranty for 2 years or 24k miles (for pre '19) - and that includes powertrain.

Some items - like certain trim bits - aren't covered after the first few months anyway, so they wouldn't be covered by the CPO either.

If your car has been flagged - and it would have been if they actually scanned it for the CPO inspection - the VW will "correctly" deny warranty coverage for most powertrain issues.
LMAO what a cluster. The dealership lies, VW support doesn't even know how their own warranty works. Pretty crappy introduction to VW in the first week... I'll see if I can get a different support person on the horn.

FWIW.... https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/volkswagen-certified-pre-owned-program/
No additional separate powertrain coverage

And https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/volkswagen-certified-pre-owned-program
VW’s CPO program also doesn’t offer additional powertrain coverage beyond the brand’s original 5-year or 60,000-mile warranty for older models.
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
Yes, but I’m trying to get my ducks in a row before I visit so I know if they’re trying to pull one over on me
Yes they are - they are a dealer after all.

https://docs.dealerfire.com/public/...67899-VW-CPO_Retail_Brochure_ViewOnly_hz3.pdf

I'm not sure who thinks that powertrain isn't part of "bumper to bumper".

The paperwork you got with the car must identify any exclusions. I'm not talking the broshure, but I'm referring to the actual paperwork that you signed.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
LMAO what a cluster. The dealership lies, VW support doesn't even know how their own warranty works. Pretty crappy introduction to VW in the first week... I'll see if I can get a different support person on the horn.

FWIW.... https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/volkswagen-certified-pre-owned-program/


And https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/volkswagen-certified-pre-owned-program
The bottom line is the dealer lied to you about the tune and the tune is why VW won't honor a powertrain warranty. So if the dealer agrees to honor the powertrain warranty independent of VW is the question. Most likely not at which point you'll need to remind the dealer they committed fraud in knowingly selling a car as a CPO with a warranty that VW won't honor. You said you like the car and so it's up to you to decide what you would like to get as compensation for the useless powertrain warranty.
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
LMAO what a cluster. The dealership lies, VW support doesn't even know how their own warranty works. Pretty crappy introduction to VW in the first week... I'll see if I can get a different support person on the horn.

FWIW.... https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/volkswagen-certified-pre-owned-program/


And https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/volkswagen-certified-pre-owned-program
Another reason why it is important to read carefully. KBB clearlt says "No additional separate powertrain coverage"

It is simple - most car warranties are a bumper to bumper and a longer powertrain. Some CPO warranties are the same.

VW only does a flat 2/24 bumper to bumper that covers everything from...wait for it.....bumper to bumper.

If the powertrain is located between the front and rear bumpers then it is covered - for the same duration.
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
Another reason why it is important to read carefully. KBB clearlt says "No additional separate powertrain coverage"

It is simple - most car warranties are a bumper to bumper and a longer powertrain. Some CPO warranties are the same.

VW only does a flat 2/24 bumper to bumper that covers everything from...wait for it.....bumper to bumper.

If the powertrain is located between the front and rear bumpers then it is covered - for the same duration.
Later it says this: “No matter where your CPO Volkswagen falls in this spectrum, the only powertrain coverage is the original 5-year or 60,000-mile policy.”

And the second link says: “VW’s CPO program also doesn’t offer additional powertrain coverage beyond the brand’s original 5-year or 60,000-mile warranty for older models.”

Other summaries support what you’re saying.

Thats enough to question it. You don’t need to accuse me of not reading carefully, As I’ve been carefully reading for the last 48 hours.
 
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