MeltedSolid
Autocross Newbie
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area
- Car(s)
- '15 Golf, e36 328i
I've asked them at least once too. I think they're underestimating the market they would get from the 1.8, but maybe it really is difficult to crack the 1.8 ecu?
7
Tune for 1.8 with IS38 Sportwagen
- Thread starter jc1
- Start date
Idk if they're underestimating it, or it really doesn't exist.
There's only a handful of hybrid or BT 1.8t's... (you have to assume at least a large percentage of them are active on the forums). Shapland (boss600?), Hornung (dbv2 V1), candyblanco (boss500 in Colorado), crxgator (but his is gone), and my car. Even if there's twice as many ghosts, that's 15 cars total. Call that a grand total of 8 Cobb units (because some would decide to go with already established tuners like UM).
The number of is38 and is20 cars is FAR greater, but there's enough off the shelf tuning options out there where it's not like cobb could steal a huge share. They're not gunna get the vast majority of the APR sales because it's marketed to a different crowd. They'll basically get uni sales, since it's a similar solution (remote flash). They won't get any of the JB4 sales because you can't self tweak.
It takes a fair amount of development, especially to release a real commercial product like an accessport. I just can't see them dedicating development time, documentation time, marketing time, etc to a product that's only had a dozen actual requests (especially when only a percentage of those people will actually be buyers). How many units would they actual sell in a calendar year? Are there 50 1.8t cars out there that don't have their needs met right now?
I've asked them many many times over the last 3 years (I keep replying to the same sales support request) and it's always the same.
For what it's worth... It's the same situation with ecutek at this point. Their last reply to me was that they don't have support for my box code and they likely won't this year. 5150 said we could just flash something from another box code (but I feel like if that were the case, then ecutek would have said they could do it).
This is why we're stuck with small companies for any real support - it's the only way to get someone to spend the time on it since they have less overhead and don't need to adhere to the same development / commercial product guidelines.
/rant. I just want my MPI to work.
There's only a handful of hybrid or BT 1.8t's... (you have to assume at least a large percentage of them are active on the forums). Shapland (boss600?), Hornung (dbv2 V1), candyblanco (boss500 in Colorado), crxgator (but his is gone), and my car. Even if there's twice as many ghosts, that's 15 cars total. Call that a grand total of 8 Cobb units (because some would decide to go with already established tuners like UM).
The number of is38 and is20 cars is FAR greater, but there's enough off the shelf tuning options out there where it's not like cobb could steal a huge share. They're not gunna get the vast majority of the APR sales because it's marketed to a different crowd. They'll basically get uni sales, since it's a similar solution (remote flash). They won't get any of the JB4 sales because you can't self tweak.
It takes a fair amount of development, especially to release a real commercial product like an accessport. I just can't see them dedicating development time, documentation time, marketing time, etc to a product that's only had a dozen actual requests (especially when only a percentage of those people will actually be buyers). How many units would they actual sell in a calendar year? Are there 50 1.8t cars out there that don't have their needs met right now?
I've asked them many many times over the last 3 years (I keep replying to the same sales support request) and it's always the same.
For what it's worth... It's the same situation with ecutek at this point. Their last reply to me was that they don't have support for my box code and they likely won't this year. 5150 said we could just flash something from another box code (but I feel like if that were the case, then ecutek would have said they could do it).
This is why we're stuck with small companies for any real support - it's the only way to get someone to spend the time on it since they have less overhead and don't need to adhere to the same development / commercial product guidelines.
/rant. I just want my MPI to work.
Unfortunately there's no real way to know. That's what you see as an enthusiast that wants to tinker. There's plenty of people that want to drop their car off somewhere and pick it up with more hp a few hours later.
I wonder how many Cobb tuned GTIs and R's bought their accessport just to stick to stage 1/2 OTS (vs those that got one just so they could get pro tuned).
If your plan is an OTS hardware configuration and cookie cutter software, then the only thing an accessport affords you is flashing at home. And I can't imagine it's caused companies like APR much heartache or we would have seen their dealer only business model change (which it hasn't in the 10-15 years that I've been playing with VWs).
Just saying. There's a certain number of units that they need to sell to make the development costs worth it. And the number of potential 1.8t sales is probably just too low.
tigeo
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Richmond, VA area
Truth. If you follow the GTI/R pages/FB groups, so many do the Cobb AP just to run OTS/base files so zero difference between that and the APR/Uni model except as you say, flash at home and the feeling of it being "better" b/c you have an AP and can watch it all the time with zero clue what any of it means or that you don't need to b/c that's the point of an OTS tune.
jimlloyd40
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Phoenix
- Car(s)
- 2018 SE DSG
I agree about the lack of sales volume for the reason Cobb doesn't tune the 1.8. I disagree about Cobb not causing APR headaches. Cobb far outsells APR and is far more versatile. With APR you're stuck going to a dealer and are stuck with just APR as a tuner. With Cobb besides the ability to tune in your driveway or anywhere you have the option to chose from multiple tuners.
J Peterman
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- USA
Reply from the owner of EcuTek in my inbox this morning in response to custom tuning, MPI & Flex support for the VW Mk7/7.5 1.8T:
“we have just released MPI for 18.1 ECUs and should be releasing MPI for 18.10 ECUs at the beginning of next week. FlexFuel is not going to be available for these cars until the back end of the year I'm afraid as we have had to divert some resources away from RaceROM development. When it does come it will be self adjusting with a ethanol sensor and also available to set up for specific blends such as E30/E50. These can be set to one of the map switching modes, so it should be pretty 'flexible'...”
“we have just released MPI for 18.1 ECUs and should be releasing MPI for 18.10 ECUs at the beginning of next week. FlexFuel is not going to be available for these cars until the back end of the year I'm afraid as we have had to divert some resources away from RaceROM development. When it does come it will be self adjusting with a ethanol sensor and also available to set up for specific blends such as E30/E50. These can be set to one of the map switching modes, so it should be pretty 'flexible'...”
Wow. That sounds exciting.
Yes, Cobb is more versatile.
There is literally 0 data available that you could point to to say that Cobb "far outsells APR".
Sounds like they need to figure their lives out. I was told (on the 7th of July) by Tobin Sinclair ("Sales and Marketing Director"):
"At the moment we haven't obtained an A2L file for your car so we still cannot support it. I suspect we won't be looking to acquire any further A2Ls until later on in the year I'm afraid as the dev team has moved on to another project. Sorry that it's not better news. "
Thanks for the info, I opened the email chain back up and included your quote
J Peterman
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- USA
Yeah let us know what he says. The reply I posted was from the same gentleman. I don’t know if it makes a difference but I drive a ‘19 GSW 4Mo with a Simos 18.1 ECU. I don’t have my box code (still need to pick up an OBD11) and I have no idea what an A2L file is, but I’m assuming we have the same ECU?
jimlloyd40
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Phoenix
- Car(s)
- 2018 SE DSG
Yes, Cobb is more versatile.
There is literally 0 data available that you could point to to say that Cobb "far outsells APR".
Sounds like they need to figure their lives out. I was told (on the 7th of July) by Tobin Sinclair ("Sales and Marketing Director"):
"At the moment we haven't obtained an A2L file for your car so we still cannot support it. I suspect we won't be looking to acquire any further A2Ls until later on in the year I'm afraid as the dev team has moved on to another project. Sorry that it's not better news. "
Thanks for the info, I opened the email chain back up and included your quote
Just reading this forum looks like far more people use Cobb. Nearly all of the top powered GTI and R's do.
Cobb also tunes for more brands so it's likely that Cobb literally is in more cars than APR. I'm sure APR business is getting hurt because of the lack of home flashing. There is no way anyone can logically say it's not the case.
tigeo
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Richmond, VA area
I would bet APR holds a huge share of the VAG tuning market. Folks forget that just b/c someone doesn't come on a forum or FB group doesn't mean they don't tune their car. How many set it and forget it drivers out there have APR and don't care to come here and talk about it? The Cobb crew will be default likely be more into this and join forums/FB groups would be my take. A lot would be my guess. They need to get on board with at-home flashing though, what a PITA to have to somewhere...then again, a lot of folks that aren't heavy into this will like this as they won't want to "mess it up DIYing" and like the experience that a shop that looks to know what they are doing can flash it for them. Can always do what Unitronic does - have both options.
I'm not sure it's been changed. I know the 4mo cars have different box codes than the fwd cars. An A2L file is a definition file that tells them where all the maps are located in the file. I will share as soon as I hear something back.
Because all of those are people that chose to heavily modify their cars and need custom tuning. Which APR doesn't do. APRs bread and butter is the cookie cutter stuff. Stage 1 and stage 2 tunes.
Cobb probably is in more cars than APR. But probably not more Volkswagens and Audi's. And APR is also established in Volkswagen dealerships and has their APR plus line of tuning available. It's impossible to get numbers since it's not public. And at the end of the day it doesn't really matter.
I'd love to be proven wrong with some actual numbers. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised at all if we never see 1.8t support from Cobb.
This is true because they have all they can handle. They would likely rather expand to another platform than develop for the 1.8s.