Track Suspension-Coils +Aero

[Cliff]

I went with Ohlins, re-valved for 80N/mm front and 110N/mm rear springs. The rates I chose are similar to those that Ground Control specified for my car back in Feb 2016 when they used it to prototype their coilover conversion kit for the Mk7 Golf, at 450 lb front and 675 lb rear (~80N/mm - ~120N/mm). The adjustability of the Ohlins let me tune the handling balance to be very neutral.

 

[Keehs360]

I haven't tested just a rear. I probably should have done that 1st but I heard good things about front. My car has 58k on it. Im gonna get a rear brace eventually and see how much of a difference that makes. Im also an A3 which is the same chassis. Im not sure how well feel actually translates to performance though

An a3? I know it carries like 80-100 pounds more. But they should be about the same when it’s all said and done.

 

[Keehs360]

I can tell you're still getting to know the people here. Lord Flexington actually does drive a time attack car.

No. He sounds like an expensive friend lol

 

[JackRabbitSLIM]

Getting a real LSD in the car is an absolute must.

 

[Lord_Flexington]

Why do people focus on rear bracing so early in the development of a car?

Mainly because keeping the rear tight in a fwd car allows for MASSIVE rotation. A big RSB is one of main "big" changes you can make in handling in this platform. Its pretty impressive. Even in auto-x or just canyon running its can really help the cars performance in carrying speed.

I can only speak for myself. I don’t know what others think. I’ve only had the car for like two or three months

but the front chassis is tight as fuck. Super responsive. Stiff. And preloads easily, though it feels kinda fake but whatever.

the rear feels like it wasn’t addressed at all. I can feel it flex. It feels loose as fuck. It’s as if the front got stitch welded but the rear was left alone in its 300k mile glory LOL

the rear seems to feel way worse in a non dcc equipped Gti. Imo at least.

I’d wait for other folks to kick in their two cents though. These are just my opinions.

Yep same. The rear is one loose goose! makes for a great DD car but for those that want to go faster you notice how much the rear of the car keeps you from pushing pretty quickly

That’s interesting. Folks I know have told me the rear made a way way bigger noticeable difference than the front. One guy told me to avoid doing the front until everything else in the build is done considering you’ll hardly notice it

I also read two posts by probably two different people more or less saying the same thing?

If yours had a ton of miles before you added it, yeah I can see why it felt like a super noticeable difference.

I’ve only had mine for about three months or so. Naturally I’ll be deferring to all of u + the folks I know here in my neck of the woods.

Can vouch for that.

Leave the front the fak alone.
Control arms like super pro and links yes but other than that leave the fsb.

I tried it just to see why for my own tastes but yea stiff fsb kills the cars responsiveness in a track situation.

To be honest no car thats fast "drives on rails" thats the opposite of what you truly want. You need it to be loose enought so slide it into corners and power TF out.

No. He sounds like an expensive friend lol

hahahahahhaha


sometimes im expensive, but I really like trying to pass on any savings I can to the group like with USP/Mele/Accelera etc

But yea, if you don't like having a high smile per dollar ratio, its a bad idea to hang out with me for a weekend

Getting a real LSD in the car is an absolute must.

This is true. I have the factory lsd. I think its dope, but if you have a non LSD Golf its just not the same. The amount of speed you can carry with an LSD (Pelo, wave, OEM) is just incredible compared to the base versions.






Thanks everyone for your responses! I certainly have somethings to look into.

How would you all calculate rates knowing aero is now a factor? In some cases I will be able to generate upwards of 200lbs front/rear at speeds. I know thats gotta throw some readings off

 

[Keehs360]

Mainly because keeping the rear tight in a fwd car allows for MASSIVE rotation. A big RSB is one of main "big" changes you can make in handling in this platform. Its pretty impressive. Even in auto-x or just canyon running its can really help the cars performance in carrying speed.

Yep same. The rear is one loose goose! makes for a great DD car but for those that want to go faster you notice how much the rear of the car keeps you from pushing pretty quickly

Can vouch for that.

Leave the front the fak alone.
Control arms like super pro and links yes but other than that leave the fsb.

I tried it just to see why for my own tastes but yea stiff fsb kills the cars responsiveness in a track situation.

To be honest no car thats fast "drives on rails" thats the opposite of what you truly want. You need it to be loose enought so slide it into corners and power TF out.

hahahahahhaha


sometimes im expensive, but I really like trying to pass on any savings I can to the group like with USP/Mele/Accelera etc

But yea, if you don't like having a high smile per dollar ratio, its a bad idea to hang out with me for a weekend

This is true. I have the factory lsd. I think its dope, but if you have a non LSD Golf its just not the same. The amount of speed you can carry with an LSD (Pelo, wave, OEM) is just incredible compared to the base versions.






Thanks everyone for your responses! I certainly have somethings to look into.

How would you all calculate rates knowing aero is now a factor? In some cases I will be able to generate upwards of 200lbs front/rear at speeds. I know thats gotta throw some readings off

M’lord

thanks for confirming all of that! Great info for sure.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Mainly because keeping the rear tight in a fwd car allows for MASSIVE rotation. A big RSB is one of main "big" changes you can make in handling in this platform. Its pretty impressive. Even in auto-x or just canyon running its can really help the cars performance in carrying speed.

I know all about a RSB, but I'm fairly certain the OP was going to reference sub-frame stiffeners or some other strut bar, which I think is a waste of time, at least for a first mod, when tires, an alignment (rear toe out), and maybe a rear bar, are far more helpful in getting rear rotation.

 

[bfury5]

How would you all calculate rates knowing aero is now a factor? In some cases I will be able to generate upwards of 200lbs front/rear at speeds. I know thats gotta throw some readings off

For an aero car, you increase the ride frequency of the suspension accordingly. 200lbs of downforce isn't a lot in the realm of high downforce cars, so you'd probably want to start on the upper end of what a street ride frequency would be for the platform. That will set your springrates.

I don't do time attack (autox only), but for me my suspension purchase came down to wanting the most performance I could get for the best price possible. Ohlins, Bilstein clubsport, and KW clubsport were all in my scope but they were all too rich for me. Knowing what you want out of a suspension makes a huge difference, and trusting the suspension builder is a huge part as well.

I worked with my builder (Redshift Motorsports) to build my coils specific for autocross. We discuss the intricacies of how the valving would work, as well as nailing down some starting spring rates based on what my setup was. As far as "making mistakes and learning" goes, I took my time to get as much of that done BEFORE I even had my suspension. When all was said and done, I had my suspension installed for all of this season and had to make 0 major changes to the coils themselves. I made a lot of alignment tweaks to blend the suspension characteristics, my driving style, and overall handling which is where I spent most of my time this year. Maybe I'll change springrates over the winter, but mostly because I'm curious not because I have to.

TLDR; Do your homework, understand what you want out of your car, determine what's most important (what features you need, and what you don't want to pay for), and find a suspension tuner you trust.

 

[Keehs360]

make sure you build your aero right. You can’t comprise and have the best of both worlds. Auto x aero looks crazy and over exaggerated for good reason, your not going very fast. Where as road course aero looks much more subdued since the average speed is much higher

I’d race it at least 2 or 3 years. Then decide on aero. You want to impact the speed you find yourself in most, if that makes sense. Real aero is not cheap. Cant f this up

 

[Mini7]

Chiming in with my experience. My requirements were quite similar to DaveC. I wanted an inverted strut, externally adjustable with good support and service within the USA. I really wanted a DA but in the grand scheme of things I'm not that serious about it anymore and SA is fine. A true coilover rear is appealing but I was concerned about space for the tire size I wanted to run. I will be working with 3DM Motorsports for my Ohlins RT. If you buy the kit from them, they will custom valve at no additional charge. Also, they carry Swift springs and Vorshlag camber plates. So it's a one stop shop for a bolt in solution.

+1 for Barry at 3DM Motorsports. He revalved my Ohlins front and rear after I went to 672lb rear springs. The car is feeling very nimble. I matched my PB in the first session at VIR 2-weeks ago. And it was my first event in a year. Did not feel like I was pushing that hard. Ran into high oil and coolant temps which hampered me the rest of the weekend.

 

[Lord_Flexington]

So Its a year later. I ended up with the new Fortune Auto 510 for the MK7!

Devin there was super easy to talk to and I got to meet them at a circuit near me. They were doing some demos and it as nice being able to talk in-person with people who understood what I was looking for. LIke a few others in here mentioned it can make a big difference in how the car handles. Really looking forward to punishing these on track asap.


https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/lord-flexingtons-gti-tcr.338127/page-4#post-7702432
https://www.shop-fortune-auto.com/products/volkswagen-golf-gti-mk7-2015-510-series-coilovers

 

[q74]

So Its a year later. I ended up with the new Fortune Auto 510 for the MK7!

Devin there was super easy to talk to and I got to meet them at a circuit near me. They were doing some demos and it as nice being able to talk in-person with people who understood what I was looking for. LIke a few others in here mentioned it can make a big difference in how the car handles. Really looking forward to punishing these on track asap.


https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/lord-flexingtons-gti-tcr.338127/page-4#post-7702432
https://www.shop-fortune-auto.com/products/volkswagen-golf-gti-mk7-2015-510-series-coilovers

What spring rates did you settle on?

 

[Lord_Flexington]

What spring rates did you settle on?

So after we talked about plans for the car and what is happening in the next year or so. I have 3 to play with 10k 12k and 14k. Figured why not give em all a go! To start I'll do 10k Front 12k Rear. .

 

[Mini7]

I’m at 8/12 and considering bumping the front to 9k

You are running aero. Correct?

 

[Lord_Flexington]

I’m at 8/12 and considering bumping the front to 9k

You are running aero. Correct?

Thats correct! I should have some more info for yall after this weekend.