Track Alignment Golf R MK7 Audi S3 8V

[odessa.filez]

Damn dude how did you get -4.75 camber up front?? Are you on slicks?

see signature. running re71r

 

[emichel6888]

Total toe of 1/16, I’m not concerned with the rear. I do have some concern up front With toe out. 1/16 total toe is not much but the front does so much more work than the rear.

My plan is to adjust back to zero for the street as a precaution. I have toe plates and turn plates. Just need to figure out how many turns of the tie rod to undo the toe. Then I can knock it out quick and easy on rhino ramps.
Jacking the car up to get access is what slows you down and makes toe adjustments a PITA, unless you know beforehand what adjustment is required.

I actually run 1/8 toe out (total) front and rear and tire wear is fine. If you see my other post I have been tracking tire wear for some time. I have almost 15,000 miles on my street tires with these settings, and the tire wear has been excellent IMO. These tires do have a little bit of track use as well but mostly street with a lot of highway miles. I drive pretty hard even on the street (when I can) and it is looking like will get about 20-25 thousand miles out of these tires, which all things considered is pretty good IMO. There is a bit more wear on the inside, but if you do any tracking you are going to scrub the outside , so it actually tends to even out the wear.
I rotated at 10,000 miles and it looks like I should really do it every 5,000. I am beginning to think people that claim this much negative camber and toe out will cause rapid tire wear, only read about it somewhere, because here is my real world experience:

 

[Mini7]

Hah! Looks like I will have to add tire rotation and tread wear measurements to my maintenance logs. Lol

Appreciate you sharing. Not really concerned about camber wearing tires. From past experience bad toe settings can chew up tires pretty quickly.
I generally get about 18-20k out of a set of MPS4S

 

[emichel6888]

Hah! Looks like I will have to add tire rotation and tread wear measurements to my maintenance logs. Lol

Appreciate you sharing. Not really concerned about camber wearing tires. From past experience bad toe settings can chew up tires pretty quickly.
I generally get about 18-20k out of a set of MPS4S

Looks like i will get about the same mileage out of these tires, and that is with a 1/8th toe out front and back from day one. You are right though, toe is what eats tires, but if kept within around 1/8th in or out I find the difference in tire wear is negligible. I had originally set to a 1/4 on the previous tires and witnessed the tires wear down incredibly fast, that is why I reduced it and started monitoring tire wear with this new set. Apparently it is like everything else in life, to much of anything can be a problem, but in moderation...
I really like how the car responds with toe out, the more the better IMO, but I have found around 1/8th is the most you can do without causing a lot of tire wear. So toe in or toe out, makes no difference on tire wear accept toe in wears the outer tread faster and toe out wears the inner tread faster. Toe in = safe (boring under steer) on center tendency and toe out = quicker turn in response, better front end grip, easier rotation, fun and faster.

 

[RedDragonAus]

Which bushings did you replace in the rear? What is the spring rate on your KWs?

I’m planning on going with some toe out up front to improve initial turn in bite. Most probably going on a 1/16 toe out up front and 1/16 toe in the rear for the track.

I replaced the upper trailing arm bushing (SPF4195K) with one from Superpro. it got rid of the rear end wiggle I as getting as the car would power slide on big corners. The KW have a progressive spring and they don't give the specs. I get the car back from the race shop today and will post my alignment specs and weights.

 

[RedDragonAus]

Had my car corner balanced and aligned today at Action Tyres and More after installing the Whiteline alloy control arms and it is Now 50/50 left to right weight distribution. Even with some weight reduction its still 1528kg with 1/2 tank of fuel and a 80kg driver.

Gained over 1° caster and Camber is about the same but I shifted the subframe when I tightened it up so more on the left wheel. Better for our right turn tracks.

The back is now 10mm higher than the front. Height was even front and rear but was a little on the low side. Looks better now and Drives better with a more sure footed feel and a better ride over bumps that used to unsettle it. (Old Bridgestone alignment is in hours/minutes and I wrote in the conversion to degrees).

Car has KW V3 coilovers, Whiteline front and rear swaybars with end links, Whiteline Alloy front control arms, Whiteline roll centre kit (lower adjustable ball joints), 034 Motorsport from subframe licking kit and Superpro camber tops.

 

[emichel6888]

Here are my values for reference, I do my own alignments so this is not my final (but close) I occasionally take it to a local shop for reference. For $30 they will throw it on the rack and give me a print out.

My alignment and the shop rack usually match very close, but I have learned to trust my alignment over the machine. This is my current toe setting:

 

[Mini7]

Here are my values for reference, I do my own alignments so this is not my final (but close) I occasionally take it to a local shop for reference. For $30 they will throw it on the rack and give me a print out.
View attachment 185228

View attachment 185229View attachment 185230

My alignment and the shop rack usually match very close, but I have learned to trust my alignment over the machine. This is my current toe setting:
View attachment 185243

I like your setup.

I have regular toe plates and turn plates but I have to jack up the car to get to the tie rods. The turn plates aren’t adding any value other than when I measure caster.

Now if I get wheel stands similar to yours but can fit the turn plates, that would be great.

So here’s a question for you seeing that you do your own alignments.

• How much adjustment is in the eccentric bolt for the rear upper camber link? Distance and Camber Adjustment
• How much adjustment is in the eccentric bolt for the lower rear control arm – inner pick-up? Distance and Camber Adjustment
• I’m assuming that it is the same for both, as the eccentric bolt is the same part# if I am not mistaken.

I’m currently at -2 degrees. Curious whether I can max out the length of the rear lower control and then stand up the wheel with the upper camber link to gain some wiggle room to the fuel filler tube and still get the -2 degrees...?

I was going to see if an alignment tech was on the forum, who could provide the info.

Another question is, what is the toe change per one turn of the tie rod in inches/mm/degrees?

 

[Gvazquez]

I like your setup.

I have regular toe plates and turn plates but I have to jack up the car to get to the tie rods. The turn plates aren’t adding any value other than when I measure caster.

Now if I get wheel stands similar to yours but can fit the turn plates, that would be great.

So here’s a question for you seeing that you do your own alignments.

• How much adjustment is in the eccentric bolt for the rear upper camber link? Distance and Camber Adjustment
• How much adjustment is in the eccentric bolt for the lower rear control arm – inner pick-up? Distance and Camber Adjustment
• I’m assuming that it is the same for both, as the eccentric bolt is the same part# if I am not mistaken.

I’m currently at -2 degrees. Curious whether I can max out the length of the rear lower control and then stand up the wheel with the upper camber link to gain some wiggle room to the fuel filler tube and still get the -2 degrees...?

I was going to see if an alignment tech was on the forum, who could provide the info.

Another question is, what is the toe change per one turn of the tie rod in inches/mm/degrees?

I was able to get -2.2 in the rear before I went to spherical bearing camber arms. Im not too sure of the question but it can be done with the stock eccentrics.

 

[odessa.filez]

just cut the wheels to each side to access the tie rods. easy

 

[emichel6888]

I like your setup.

I have regular toe plates and turn plates but I have to jack up the car to get to the tie rods. The turn plates aren’t adding any value other than when I measure caster.

Now if I get wheel stands similar to yours but can fit the turn plates, that would be great.

So here’s a question for you seeing that you do your own alignments.

• How much adjustment is in the eccentric bolt for the rear upper camber link? Distance and Camber Adjustment
• How much adjustment is in the eccentric bolt for the lower rear control arm – inner pick-up? Distance and Camber Adjustment
• I’m assuming that it is the same for both, as the eccentric bolt is the same part# if I am not mistaken.

I’m currently at -2 degrees. Curious whether I can max out the length of the rear lower control and then stand up the wheel with the upper camber link to gain some wiggle room to the fuel filler tube and still get the -2 degrees...?

I was going to see if an alignment tech was on the forum, who could provide the info.

Another question is, what is the toe change per one turn of the tie rod in inches/mm/degrees?

Yea I was thinking about getting turn plates, but there is no caster adjustment so... I was actually able to reach the tie rods with the car on the ground, but it is a miserable experience and you have to go by feel, the stands make alignments so easy to do. I managed to find these used on Ebay for $250 new they are a little pricey: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TQ9T1I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They are light weight and stack up so don't take up a lot of space, I would recommend these.

When I changed out the bushings and added the rear toe links that is what I did. I maxed out the lower arm eccentric (figured get the widest track), and used the adjustable front links to set toe. With it setup like that I have seen up to 3.5 degrees negative camber with the stock upper arm eccentric. That is why I did not bother getting new adjustable upper arms, because the stock arms already give more rear camber than I planned to use. However, those rear camber eccentrics are not easy to access and getting accurate adjustment with eccentrics is a PIA, which is why I said if I were to do it again I would probably spring for a set of adjustable upper arms rather than just changing the bushings. You don't need them but...
You also may not want to max the lower arm depending on your wheel/tire setup, so if you are running low offset or spacers with wide wheel/tire you can buy yourself more fender clearance by bringing them both in if needed. Although I am currently running 18x9 with 255 and 40 offset and no clearance issues. But the toe links give you the option to make those sort of changes if needed.
Unfortunately I did not think to measure change per turn, but that is a good idea, I will try to do that next time. However, I can tell you it does not take much, when you start getting close you will be making very small 1/4 -1/8 turn or less adjustments. Just make sure the rods are symmetrical before you start and try to keep them as close as possible.

And this is what I use to keep the steering wheel straight:

And for camber:

 

[Mini7]

Good to know there is -3.5 in stock adjustments with the upper and lower eccentric bolts.
What is your ride height. Fender to ground?

I can see how the eccentric bolts are a PITA using strings. On a digital alignment rack you can hold the the bolt in position while you lock down the nut and invariably you have to learn to hold it over or under the desired setting as you tighten the nut to pull it to the spec you want. With strings its trial and error to get it exact. With and adjustable camber arm you can science it out based on the thread pitch.

With front toe I believe it’s a M14x1.5, so every turn is 1.5mm multiplied by the torque arm on the spindle the tie rod is bolted too. Then it’s easy to make adjustments for the track and then undo them for the street. If 1/8” toe out is not causing additional tire wear I might not mess with it.
I still want to know how much to adjust each side to get 1/8” total toe.

 

[emichel6888]

Good to know there is -3.5 in stock adjustments with the upper and lower eccentric bolts.
What is your ride height. Fender to ground?

I can see how the eccentric bolts are a PITA using strings. On a digital alignment rack you can hold the the bolt in position while you lock down the nut and invariably you have to learn to hold it over or under the desired setting as you tighten the nut to pull it to the spec you want. With strings its trial and error to get it exact. With and adjustable camber arm you can science it out based on the thread pitch.

With front toe I believe it’s a M14x1.5, so every turn is 1.5mm multiplied by the torque arm on the spindle the tie rod is bolted too. Then it’s easy to make adjustments for the track and then undo them for the street. If 1/8” toe out is not causing additional tire wear I might not mess with it.
I still want to know how much to adjust each side to get 1/8” total toe.

It is certainly more work but I am not using the string for camber, but it still not the easiest or most precise method; like you said it is tricky tightening the bolt without causing some eccentric shift. However, once you get it set, it's not like you make changes often so...
I only have about a 1/2" drop, given the limited suspension travel on this car... I hit a lot of bumpy roads on and off track. I currently have 25 and 3/8 up front and 25 and 5/8 at the rear (fender to ground).

 

[RedDragonAus]

Just an update. Had a big track day yesterday that went from sun up to sun down and ran 3 sessions of 4 different track configurations.
The new alignment and correct corner balance is beautiful, just a hint of over steer if you lift of in a fast corner and plenty of front end grip, especially with a bit of trail braking.

I highly recommend getting your car on some scales or at least get your rear 10mm higher than the front.

Now I’ll chase more grip with some 255 AR1s all around on a wider 8.5 or 9” rim

 

[reverend_sean]

View attachment 186515

Looks so buttoned down. Nice shot!