Thinking about trading 2017 Civic Si for new GTI

[themaincop]

Like the title says I'm thinking about trading my 2017 Civic Si sedan for a new GTI, probably a DSG Autobahn. Looking for some feedback both on if the GTI will be a better fit for me and also where on the idiot scale trading in a 2.5 year old car would leave me financially.

I actually really wanted the GTI before I bought the Si but I was making less money when I made the purchase and I also was biased towards Honda because I've pretty much always driven Hondas. I also was coming from a CR-V and was excited to get something really kinda stripped down and sporty. Now that I've had it for a couple of years I realize that I really like having a speedy car, but I don't really like the stripped down aspect so much. I don't go to the track and there aren't even all that many really fun backroads near me, I just like having a car that makes running errands or going on road trips a joy and never leaves me feeling like I don't have enough power/control. My understanding is that the GTI is a bit more like a sub-luxury entry, where you sacrifice a little bit of the super tight handling and in return you get more comfort and better tech, but you're still undeniably driving an enthusiast vehicle.

What I like about the Si

• Sporty/fun to drive (fantastic handling in sport mode)
• Clutch/gearbox are easy and satisfying
• Sedan is fairly practical
• Looks cool (controversial I know, I like it though)
• Great community both online and IRL
• Great gas mileage

What I don't like

• Passenger seat is really not that comfortable. My wife and I both love driving it, both hate being passengers in it
• Driving stick gets annoying sometimes, particularly during road trips up Highway 400 in the summer when everyone is trying to get to cottage country
• Infotainment is slow and awful. Feels like using a six year old bargain bin android tablet
• Audio is meh
• Visibility is only okay and I don't love the low seating position
• Lacking in tech toys (given the bad visibility I would really like some parking sensors for example)
• Infinitely less practical than a hatch, particularly for someone carrying hockey sticks in their car multiple times per week
• Rear view camera sucks and constantly gets dirty
• It's supposed to be reliable but there's already been the oil dilution issue, I also have a squeaky A/C issue. I'm concerned about the long-term reliability of the 1.5T especially since I'm the poster child of the kind of driver it struggles with (frequent short trips in cold weather)
• I'm a big idiot who bought a white car while living in grimy slushy southern Ontario
• My dog sheds a lot and that makes me wish I got something with leather seats. I have one of those hammock things but her fur still gets embedded in the cloth

So given what I've listed here is the GTI likely to be a better fit? I know I need to test drive one but I also believe it's hard to get a feel for some of that kind of thing from a test drive alone.

Finances
How dumb is this? I bought the Civic in December of 2017 for $32k CAD all-in (taxes, fees, everything.) I owe $10k on it still and it has under 20k km (12.5k miles) on it. Similar cars are listed on auto trader around here for $22-24k so I imagine trade-in would be decent. I would most likely be looking at leasing the GTI over a 36mo term with a bi-weekly payment of roughly $300 CAD (this is just from the website, not sure if I could negotiate for better numbers.) My current b/w on the Civic is $225 but I also drop extra money on it fairly often. My wife and I are DINKs and I like driving new cars (everyone knows that getting things is better than having things) so leasing seems to make more sense to me than buying. The only downside for leasing is no modding, but I'm not sure I would really need to mod it anyway. With the tune I'm running now I'm supposedly getting 237whp/287tq but I feel like with the GTIs stock numbers and a DSG instead of my piss-poor manual skills I could probably get similar performance.

Thoughts?

 

[SRTie4k]

You might want to go to a dealership and ensure the GTI is even big enough for what you intend to carry in it. The GTI is a very small car - granted it is probably still more practical than the Civic due to being a hatch - but with the rear seats up, the available trunk space is pretty darn small. That said, I'm pretty sure a few hockey sticks will fit with one side of the split rear seats down, leaving room for a dog.

Also, I think you'll be surprised with the handling of the GTI. With better tires, it doesn't leave a lot to be desired compared to the Civic Si, and the interior and tech is leagues better.

If the GTI is too small for you and you like driving a sedan, you could also look at the Jetta GLI.

 

[themaincop]

Appreciate that! Our hockey carpool is 3 guys, 3 hockey bags, and 6 sticks. In the Civic we do two bags in the trunk, one in the backseat, and then sticks running from the back seat into the passenger footwell. When we take my buddy's Fit it's two bags stacked on each other in the hatch, one bag in the backseat, and then sticks running from the hatch over the back in the back seat. It's SO much more practical running the sticks that way. I don't think I want anything bigger than a GTI, I already feel like my Civic is too long and midsize sedans feel like boats to me. I always regret not getting a hatch.

 

[The Fed]

Try to find someone to sell it to, because you'll lose $4K if you trade.

 

[codypka]

I might able to help with some of this. I bought my 17 Autobahn 2 years ago after it scored a narrow victory over the Civic Si. I spent a decent amount of seat time in both before choosing. It was a tough call, the deciding factors for me were 1. the styling of the Si, it's just not good looking 2. the DSG trans. I'd been driving manuals for years and I wanted to try something different.

I answered some of your questions within the quote below

Like the title says I'm thinking about trading my 2017 Civic Si sedan for a new GTI, probably a DSG Autobahn. Looking for some feedback both on if the GTI will be a better fit for me and also where on the idiot scale trading in a 2.5 year old car would leave me financially.

I actually really wanted the GTI before I bought the Si but I was making less money when I made the purchase and I also was biased towards Honda because I've pretty much always driven Hondas. I also was coming from a CR-V and was excited to get something really kinda stripped down and sporty. Now that I've had it for a couple of years I realize that I really like having a speedy car, but I don't really like the stripped down aspect so much. I don't go to the track and there aren't even all that many really fun backroads near me, I just like having a car that makes running errands or going on road trips a joy and never leaves me feeling like I don't have enough power/control. My understanding is that the GTI is a bit more like a sub-luxury entry, where you sacrifice a little bit of the super tight handling and in return you get more comfort and better tech, but you're still undeniably driving an enthusiast vehicle.

What I like about the Si

• Sporty/fun to drive (fantastic handling in sport mode)
• Clutch/gearbox are easy and satisfying - the Si is a better unit in my experience. I think most manual GTI owners will admit to this transmission being only "ok"
• Sedan is fairly practical
• Looks cool (controversial I know, I like it though)
• Great community both online and IRL- great community here as well with lots of aftermarket options
• Great gas mileage- a GTI will probably return a little less

What I don't like

• Passenger seat is really not that comfortable. My wife and I both love driving it, both hate being passengers in it- GTI seats, whether leather or cloth are great
• Driving stick gets annoying sometimes, particularly during road trips up Highway 400 in the summer when everyone is trying to get to cottage country
• Infotainment is slow and awful. Feels like using a six year old bargain bin android tablet- Infotainment on the GTI is much better than Honda
• Audio is meh- you can get the upgraded Fender system which is good enough for %95 of people
• Visibility is only okay and I don't love the low seating position
• Lacking in tech toys (given the bad visibility I would really like some parking sensors for example)
• Infinitely less practical than a hatch, particularly for someone carrying hockey sticks in their car multiple times per week
• Rear view camera sucks and constantly gets dirty- you probably know already, but the GTI rear camera hides itself behind the VW badge so it stays clean
• It's supposed to be reliable but there's already been the oil dilution issue, I also have a squeaky A/C issue. I'm concerned about the long-term reliability of the 1.5T especially since I'm the poster child of the kind of driver it struggles with (frequent short trips in cold weather)
• I'm a big idiot who bought a white car while living in grimy slushy southern Ontario
• My dog sheds a lot and that makes me wish I got something with leather seats. I have one of those hammock things but her fur still gets embedded in the cloth

So given what I've listed here is the GTI likely to be a better fit? I know I need to test drive one but I also believe it's hard to get a feel for some of that kind of thing from a test drive alone.

Finances
How dumb is this? I bought the Civic in December of 2017 for $32k CAD all-in (taxes, fees, everything.) I owe $10k on it still and it has under 20k km (12.5k miles) on it. Similar cars are listed on auto trader around here for $22-24k so I imagine trade-in would be decent. I would most likely be looking at leasing the GTI over a 36mo term with a bi-weekly payment of roughly $300 CAD (this is just from the website, not sure if I could negotiate for better numbers.) My current b/w on the Civic is $225 but I also drop extra money on it fairly often. My wife and I are DINKs and I like driving new cars (everyone knows that getting things is better than having things) so leasing seems to make more sense to me than buying. The only downside for leasing is no modding, but I'm not sure I would really need to mod it anyway. With the tune I'm running now I'm supposedly getting 237whp/287tq but I feel like with the GTIs stock numbers and a DSG instead of my piss-poor manual skills I could probably get similar performance.

-sounds like you have a good amount of equity, so it;s not a terrible financial decision in my opinion

Thoughts?

 

[dunkelweizen]

I was a long time Honda guy and unless something drastically changes for the better with Honda, there's no way I would go back now. The GTI will pretty much solve all your dislikes you listed and then some - though seating comfort is subjective and will depend on body type. Only way to know is to try it out.

Southern Ontario and the GTA with a lot of highways and 60 to 80 km/h roads suits the GTI much better than the Civic imo.

If you decide to buy/lease new, I recommend using Unhaggle - it will save you lots of time and money, unless you have a close relative that is high up in a VW dealership. And unless things are different now, leasing through VW is not great in general.

Another option is get a low mileage 2016 GTI Autobahn like this one. It should still have a year or so of drivetrain warranty left and is the model year that is most loaded in Canada as cost cutting was done by VW in subsequent model years. A used '16 Autobahn is pretty much a direct swap with your Civic from a $$ standpoint if you sell your Civic privately. The one I linked is fully loaded with almost all the tech toys available including the 8" Discover Pro screen/head unit, Fender audio with sub, park sensors, auto park pilot, etc. The only 2 things missing on that car are DCC (adjustable dampers) and the PP (Performance Pack brakes and FDL/LSD). That car is even the no longer available reflex silver so one of the better colours for not looking like heck in slushy roads.

With the GTI, if you want more power and worried about warranty, just get a JB1 or JB4 for about $550 CAD (JB1) and 20 minutes install and you will be pushing 260hp/300tq or more if using PetroCan 94 octane. It is not detectable if you remove before service.

Good luck!

 

[themaincop]

Thanks! How do you like the DSG after coming from manuals? I only learned how to drive stick shortly before I bought my Si and I do like it but sometimes I feel like I could be having even more fun with the super quick shifts on a DSG. It's also a total slog in cottage country traffic, even with the nice light clutch. The drive home on Labour Day weekend this year was brutal.

RE: Private party sales, I've never sold a car private party before but for $4k it's probably worth the hassle.

 

[Shane_Anigans]

Thanks! How do you like the DSG after coming from manuals? I only learned how to drive stick shortly before I bought my Si and I do like it but sometimes I feel like I could be having even more fun with the super quick shifts on a DSG. It's also a total slog in cottage country traffic, even with the nice light clutch. The drive home on Labour Day weekend this year was brutal.

The GTI is the first 2-pedal car I've ever owned, in 23 years of driving. I have no complaints about the responsiveness of the DSG when I feel like hustling, and the automatic mode is a godsend whenever I get stuck in traffic (especially when I return to the GTA to visit my cousins, because no matter how many lanes they add, 401 will never be wide enough). My last car before this one was a 2009 Civic SI with that ultra-light Honda clutch, but massive traffic jams were still pretty annoying. With the DSG, I give up nothing but a bit of nostalgia.

As far as seat comfort is concerned, the driver's seat is comfortable, and had no complaints from any long-distance passengers.

 

[Coogles]

Appreciate that! Our hockey carpool is 3 guys, 3 hockey bags, and 6 sticks. In the Civic we do two bags in the trunk, one in the backseat, and then sticks running from the back seat into the passenger footwell. When we take my buddy's Fit it's two bags stacked on each other in the hatch, one bag in the backseat, and then sticks running from the hatch over the back in the back seat. It's SO much more practical running the sticks that way. I don't think I want anything bigger than a GTI, I already feel like my Civic is too long and midsize sedans feel like boats to me. I always regret not getting a hatch.

0 chance you fit 2 hockey bags in the trunk. I'm a goaltender and my bag on its own barely fits in the hatch, the cargo cover ends up sticking up when I close the hatch. The leg pads have to go in the back seat. I don't think there's any way to carpool 3 dudes with 3 hockey bags in a GTI unless somebody wants a bag in his lap.

 

[dunkelweizen]

Thanks! How do you like the DSG after coming from manuals? I only learned how to drive stick shortly before I bought my Si and I do like it but sometimes I feel like I could be having even more fun with the super quick shifts on a DSG. It's also a total slog in cottage country traffic, even with the nice light clutch. The drive home on Labour Day weekend this year was brutal.

If you're asking me, I stuck with manual in my GTI, so can't really give you a proper opinion on the DSG as I've only driven one with DSG a few times. Then again, stop and go traffic has never bothered me driving manual.

From everything I've read on these forums in the numerous DSG vs Manual threads the past few years, I have yet to see anyone that switched from manual GTI to DSG GTI really regret it. And as someone above mentioned, the manual is only okay especially compared to the unit in the Si. And the pedal placements in the GTI makes it difficult to heel toe, which is really the only thing I miss from my old Civic Si (that and the go kart handling after Eibach sportline and Koni yellow mods).

The DSG is one of the best auto units out there (especially in that price range of vehicles) and will be more fun off the line from a dig than manual. Also if you hate stop and go with manual, then you will love the DSG coupled with ACC (Adaptive Cruise Control).

 

[themaincop]

0 chance you fit 2 hockey bags in the trunk. I'm a goaltender and my bag on its own barely fits in the hatch, the cargo cover ends up sticking up when I close the hatch. The leg pads have to go in the back seat. I don't think there's any way to carpool 3 dudes with 3 hockey bags in a GTI unless somebody wants a bag in his lap.

You don't think so? I know it works in my buddy's Fit which supposedly has a smaller cargo volume with the rear seats up. The trick in that car is to just take the cargo cover off and stack the bags on top of each other. Back seat passenger does end up with a bag right next to them (same as in my Civic) but I'm not buying an SUV just to satisfy my hockey carpool ?

 

[dunkelweizen]

The cargo cover comes off and has a storage compartment for it under the hatch floor. You will be able to fit 3 hockey players and all equipment no problem with the '60' portion of the seat folded down or the '40' portion and pass through for the hockey sticks.

Edit: unless all 3 of you are goalies, then that could be a stretch to fit...

 

[SRTie4k]

Thanks! How do you like the DSG after coming from manuals? I only learned how to drive stick shortly before I bought my Si and I do like it but sometimes I feel like I could be having even more fun with the super quick shifts on a DSG. It's also a total slog in cottage country traffic, even with the nice light clutch. The drive home on Labour Day weekend this year was brutal.

RE: Private party sales, I've never sold a car private party before but for $4k it's probably worth the hassle.

I'm one of those weirdos who prefer a manual over the DSG, despite the fact that the DSG is much faster at shifting, but that might be more because I like being involved in operating the vehicle more than the performance itself.

I can't say I've driven a GTI with a DSG in quite a few years (my mom had a Mk5 with DSG a long time ago), but in my Alltrack there are a few annoying quirks with the DSG that drive me nuts. That said, most of the time it is a great auto transmission and much better than any slushbox or CVT by miles. And if you're the type of person that believes that flappy pedals are the same thing as rowing your own gears, you can always put it in manual mode and operate the gears yourself.

The GTI 6MT is merely ok from the factory, but with about $100 investment (Golf R short shift place and a bushings kit) you can transform it from merely ok to very good with minimal effort. I don't think it will ever be Honda or Mazda manual good, but it gets close with those mods.

 

[Coogles]

You don't think so? I know it works in my buddy's Fit which supposedly has a smaller cargo volume with the rear seats up. The trick in that car is to just take the cargo cover off and stack the bags on top of each other. Back seat passenger does end up with a bag right next to them (same as in my Civic) but I'm not buying an SUV just to satisfy my hockey carpool ?

Your mileage may vary I guess, but I think you'd really struggle to fit two hockey bags stacked on top of one another behind the seats even with the cargo cover removed. The fit should have a taller cargo area, I'd think.

 

[codypka]

The cargo cover comes off and has a storage compartment for it under the hatch floor. You will be able to fit 3 hockey players and all equipment no problem with the '60' portion of the seat folded down or the '40' portion and pass through for the hockey sticks.

Wait a sec, you are telling me I've been storing my cargo cover in my garage when I could have been putting it under the floor this whole time?!? Wow, i feel dumb