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Technical Question - Boost Capability at Altitude

The Fed

Old Guys Rule
Location
Florida
How much power do we lose at altitude compared to sea level, or is the car capable of maintaining the same stock 17 PSI (on a stock car)? Is the O2 percentage still the same?
 

tmw2442

Autocross Newbie
Location
Approved NPC storage contanier
Car(s)
Mk7 R
The ecm is looking for a torque target, its controlling the wastage to hit a specific torque value, not a boost psi (but its monitoring between a high and low value of what boost "should" be at whatever wastage position it's commanding)....until a certain point, then if goes above a certain psi (or below) and is not hitting the torque value it thinks there is a issue it throws a EPC light, and goes limp mode. Which are edge cases; like at high elevations, under high loads, with a aftermarket downpipe running a stock tune; unless you have some other problem going on (bad bv, wastage actuator, boost leak etc).
 
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drshark

Ready to race!
How much power do we lose at altitude compared to sea level, or is the car capable of maintaining the same stock 17 PSI (on a stock car)? Is the O2 percentage still the same?
Won’t the controller run into a turbo RPM limit, depending on the altitude? Particularly at high engine RPM, there just won’t be enough turbo speed to make up for the lack of molecules. Say 35% thinner at 12000 feet. Different OEMs build in some excess turbo speed into programming to compensate — and hence, we can all utilize tuners to get more power at sea level-ish altitudes.
 

tmw2442

Autocross Newbie
Location
Approved NPC storage contanier
Car(s)
Mk7 R
Gen 4 EA888 has a sensor on the turbo for shaft rpm (at least the continental R model turbo)....Gen 3s EA888 Golf/GTI/R doesn't.
 
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yeahforbes

Go Kart Newbie
Location
NJ
Car(s)
2017 Golf R DSG
and hence, we can all utilize tuners to get more power at sea level-ish altitudes.
Whoa! So when someone quips about a stage 1 tune that "it should've come like this from the factory," one reason it shouldn't have is that it would result in high altitude customers making less power than sea level customers, stock? That actually makes a ton of business sense. It would lead to disappointment, complicated spec sheets, or maybe even lawsuits, depending on how conspicuously it's communicated. But on the other hand, wouldn't it just put forced induction into the same situation as NA in terms of altitude-based performance degradation?
 

tmw2442

Autocross Newbie
Location
Approved NPC storage contanier
Car(s)
Mk7 R
Whoa! So when someone quips about a stage 1 tune that "it should've come like this from the factory," one reason it shouldn't have is that it would result in high altitude customers making less power than sea level customers, stock? That actually makes a ton of business sense. It would lead to disappointment, complicated spec sheets, or maybe even lawsuits, depending on how conspicuously it's communicated. But on the other hand, wouldn't it just put forced induction into the same situation as NA in terms of altitude-based performance degradation?
They don't release it with "more" power for market segmentation (if they released a 400hp golf for 45K, they would poach sales from the 65K RS3/TTRS...etc).

They have to honor a warranty for people that do minimum maintenance, and the average idiot drivers that abuse turbo motors when they are cold. So shit gets de-rated by 25 to 30 percent margin of what it "can do..." reliably if maintained and not abused.

They want people to buy a 33K GTI (on VW credit making minimum payments, 2 years later because people always want "more"....buy an 45K R (and roll into negative equity, now your 60K in debt on a 45K car, and need gap insurance), 2 years later buy an 65K RS3 (more negative equity, now 80K+ in debt)...etc.
 
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