Suspension set up to get Oversteer?

[SilverGTI1]

Gents,

I recently purchased a mkVII gti due to a new addition to the family. This is my first FWD car since college. I participate in an occasional auto-X and track day and I'm a little concerned that I will get frustrated with the understeer that I'm sure will occur with my lack of FWD experience.

Are there some simple mods that can help induce oversteer in the GTI (i.e. bigger front or rear sway bar, removing ECS fuse, inflate rear tires to 500psi, etc) coupled with liftoff/trailbraking?

Thanks.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Only useful advice I can offer it do not inflate your tyres to 500PSI.

 

[EB2429]

I would guess Auto-X wouldn't be much fun in a FWD car as its smaller and tighter circuits, but in the UK we don't have these so others would be better able to comment. On open standard circuits you should find it more enjoyable. As far as I understand the ECS+ system will allow some play for trackdays once you hold down the button for more than 3 seconds, however this thing is never fully deactivated so it will always be touching the brakes at some point for stability. This will prevent attempts at lift off oversteer to a greater extent and will reduce speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5jVPZUXOYM

I would guess a rear sway bar may help but with a very stable rear, and brakes adjusting the oversteer, I don't know how much you would gain from the added bar. This would leave the option of pulling fuses, but others will comment on whether its possible...

Personally I would concentrate on seat time as this is the first FWD you have had in a long time. This as you probably know, will improve you time far more before you look at where the car is lacking on track.

I guess the car won't be a Performance Pack model with the diff?

One thing I would change if I lived in TX is prob look for some track pads, your ambient temp is higher and the brakes will be constantly trying to help out and i think will suffer.

 

[SilverGTI1]

500psi is too high?

I agree that seat time will be the best bet...it always is.

I opted to not wait for the performance pack. Typically in the US they package all the fun stuff with all the unneccessary items. I assumed the only performance package GTI's you'll find in the US will be $38,000 autobahn editions. I could probably have ordered a basic one, but I doubt there would be any incentives. At that price I'd rather get a slightly used e90 m3.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[wlfpck]

500psi is too high?

I agree that seat time will be the best bet...it always is.

I opted to not wait for the performance pack. Typically in the US they package all the fun stuff with all the unneccessary items. I assumed the only performance package GTI's you'll find in the US will be $38,000 autobahn editions. I could probably have ordered a basic one, but I doubt there would be any incentives. At that price I'd rather get a slightly used e90 m3.

Thanks for the replies.

500 is insanely high and I doubt the tires will even hold it.

Typically you're around 38 psi (mk6 gti recommendations). Look in your door seal at the sticker for what your tire pressure should be at.

I'm not sure where you got the number of 500...

 

[SilverGTI1]

By 500psi what I really mean is that if VW recommends 35psi all around, but the sidewalls say 'max psi not to exceed 45psi', would it help to reduce rear end grip by bumping up the tire pressure in the rear to 45psi?

I'm just interested in some of the tricks that y'all use to have fun.

Thanks.

 

[wlfpck]

Bumping up the tire pressure.

When you overinflate the tires, you'll lose out on traction. As a result, it will be easier to break the back end loose. How much traction loss at 45 psi vs 35 psi? No clue.

For actual handling, rear and front sway bars can change a lot in terms of how a car handles. I'd bet that Unibrace will make a underchasis brace for the mk7 as they did with the mk6.

In terms of FWD not being as fun in Auto-X... Most Auto-x events that I have seen are dominated by Civics, Miata, Minis, 1 series, WRX, etc.

It's about having a car that handles well. While most prefer RWD or AWD, people in the Civics are just as competitive in the various classes. Not to mention having a good driver.

 

[SRoads]

Try a performance oriented alignment. Go for a stock front, but for the rear have it adjusted to zero toe and 1.5-1.7deg camber. It will reduce the traction in the rear slightly with respect to the front allowing the car to rotate

 

[CLapperhighs]

With the mk6 there was a coding trick you could do in VCDS to fully switch off esc. I'm sure someone will figure it out in time for the mk7 as well. That paired with a solid 27mm rear sway bar and stock front bar made for a very very tail happy FWD go Kart. It was amazing. Large rear bars on FWD cars do the trick.

 

[Stage2Sasquatch]

Yeah you're gonna want a huge rear bar set to stiff, that'll do the trick

 

[kyoo]

Yeah you're gonna want a huge rear bar set to stiff, that'll do the trick

this. maybe stiffer rear bumpstops also

 

[the bruce]

No, any suspension should always never touch a bumpstop, particularly not loaded.
So from principle it cannot affect handling.

Without the LSD the car will mainly suffer from traction, not turning. First weak point.
Second one, all seasons. Swap them for PSS or similar. Get these things right first.

With an LSD and proper tires next points are:

- sway bars (front and rear)
- front camber
- reduced toe in on rear
- tire pressures
- control arm bushings
- increased spring rates

 

[kyoo]

No, any suspension should always never touch a bumpstop, particularly not loaded.
So from principle it cannot affect handling.

Without the LSD the car will mainly suffer from traction, not turning. First weak point.
Second one, all seasons. Swap them for PSS or similar. Get these things right first.

With an LSD and proper tires next points are:

- sway bars (front and rear)
- front camber
- reduced toe in on rear
- tire pressures
- control arm bushings
- increased spring rates

http://eibach.com/america/en/motorsport/products/accessories/bumpstops
and many, many links on bumpstop tuning on google

bumpstop tuning is a big big deal these days. not only for race cars but also stock class cars etc. it can and absolutely does impact handling. thats why there are bumpstops with spring rates. the mini cooper basically corners on its bumpstops, making bumpstop tuning a big deal in changing its behavior. a lot of cars are set up with "sporty" spring rates, but with bumpstops that ramp up very quickly in the front so if you get too out of shape the car will understeer. you can change that to have the reverse effect.

with stock class rules, all you can pretty much do is a big rear sway bar, bumpstops, lot of rear tire pressure, and toe out in the rear if necessary. otherwise, agree with what you said

 

[the bruce]

When BS affect cornering they're certainly too long.

 

[kyoo]

When BS affect cornering they're certainly too long.

setup that way on purpose some times. a lot of guys run packers/spacers to engage the bumpstop sooner. http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/ctrp-1106-bumpstops/

basically a way to get additional spring rate without using additional spring rate. i run stiffer bumpstops in the rear of my mini to get it looser. a must do if this car will be run in GS.

bumpstops aren't just solid pieces to keep the shock from bottoming out. thats why they come in different spring rates etc. ie: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/iss-310-3018-39/overview/