Street Touring Hatchback (STH) discussion/setup

[GTIfan99]

Guys, help refresh my memory. Which individually available camber plates give the most negative camber?

 

[bfury5]

Actually, I think we need to find the CG too, which is very hard to determine as an amateur.

Yeah agreed. I'm guessing there's a point if diminishing return and trying to find the CG might be on the edge of that

 

[bfury5]

Guys, help refresh my memory. Which individually available camber plates give the most negative camber?

I'm running -3.1 with BC. I think the Vorshlag will come close to that as well. GC claims 19mm inboard, you can do the math for your strut length and that centerline shift to find how much camber that would add

 

[Gvazquez]

Just autox for me. I wouldn't hesitate to run the springs on track though, but I'd change my rear bar from stiff to soft and add some toe-in in the back as a safety. As my car is right now, it handles pretty neutral and only oversteers if really provoked or on cold tires (this is at autox speeds, so ~60mph).

Sweet good to know. That's what I want to handle similar to. I bought some 034 rear toe links also so I can align the car easier when its sitting on the scales. That basically leaves me with no stock bushing anywhere on the car. I feel like I'm turning into one of those people that just buys tons of stuff to make the car handle better but ignores the important stuff like understanding suspension frequency and all that

 

[Gvazquez]

You may have misread my response. 16k in the rear is aggressive. I was suggesting 9k/14k as a starting point. It’s not far off my current setup of 8k/12k. You may want stickier tires through. Michelin’s talk nice an early approaching the limits. I’ve finally got my tire pressures dialed in on my NT0. I’m getting them to talk but they are way quieter.

My ride height increased 30mm when I went to 12k in the rear. Still an 8” spring but I guess the spring compressed way less than the 8k spring I had. The increased rear ride height may also be contributing to the inside rear wheel lifting. I must be an 1” over stock rear ride height.

Hm i thought I understood it but maybe I didn't. I'm not gonna go with 16k rear. The car does still DD so ill probably stick with the plan of 14k rear and 9k front. The rear of my car is a little heavier than most of you guys anyway so it may have a different effect. I just wasn't sure if 9k/14k was a weird frequency or something, like the ratio front to back.

Yeah the Michelins will last forever lol they barely showed any wear. I was gonna run nankang ar-1 which is a 100tw or the nankang ns2r which is 180tw. Both have gotten really good reviews and are much cheaper than other options in its category. I know they sound like shitty China made tires but they're getting really popular.

 

[Gvazquez]

I'm running -3.1 with BC. I think the Vorshlag will come close to that as well. GC claims 19mm inboard, you can do the math for your strut length and that centerline shift to find how much camber that would add

Are you having the same problem as @Mini7 with the rear ride height? You're running stiff springs in the back as well but did you have to get a shorter spring to maintain rear ride height to compensate for the lack of spring compression?

 

[GTIfan99]

I've never run PS4S, but did use PSS. They heat cycled out with half the tread left.

 

[bfury5]

Are you having the same problem as @Mini7 with the rear ride height? You're running stiff springs in the back as well but did you have to get a shorter spring to maintain rear ride height to compensate for the lack of spring compression?

No issues for me. I ran my rear a little higher than the front to keep OEM rake (rear about 1/4" higher FTG). I have enough adjustment to drop the spring down further as well

 

[Gvazquez]

No issues for me. I ran my rear a little higher than the front to keep OEM rake (rear about 1/4" higher FTG). I have enough adjustment to drop the spring down further as well

So you got the new springs as basically the same dimensions as what came on your normal BCs?

 

[JackRabbitSLIM]

How are you solving for the GLARING issue VAQ (stock controller software) or the Haldex 5 system have related specifically to track use?

Also, I'm going to assume (unless you have a real LSD) that XDS(+) is still turned ON in some degree for most, if not all of you. You are all aware that you're cooking your brakes/heating them up WAY FASTER and losing serious performance, brake application after brake application, corner after corner, right.

I have a VAQ and have not touched any XDS settings.

I do agree with @launchd about this issue. I was thinking about it when we were talking about VAQ a while back but I wasn't thinking much about the interaction between XDS and VAQ. My car doesn't have VAQ so I'm shooting in the dark here a bit. I know on the road I can feel the difference between my mechanical diff and the XDS.

The VAQ and XDS are reactionary. To me that means over the course of and autocross run the car is subject to react differently run to run, even in the same corner. My day job is developing OE automotive electrical systems (not at VW, sorry dudes). I'm on the autonomous side, but I imagine VAQ and XDS are very similar. When systems take and interpret data they don't always react the same way because the measurements are imperfect AND in this case the data is coming in at different rates between engine data (CAN - slow) and wheel speed data (sensor - fast). I'm very weary of having an XDS system active and pressing certain brakes without me knowing it. That doesn't seem very predictable to me.

If it were me, it would definitely turn XDS all the way off to see what happens. It may not be the fastest (when VAQ is applied) in the end, but knowing what happens is valuable. And, I'd probably turn the VAQ activity to the MAX or whatever setting.

@xXDavidCXx have you changed your traction control settings and the torque limiter setting? It could be part of the fuel cut issue.
With VCDS: ABS -> Adaptions -> Starting Vibration Control -> Disable (old setting: Strong)

 

[xXDavidCXx]

I do agree with @launchd about this issue. I was thinking about it when we were talking about VAQ a while back but I wasn't thinking much about the interaction between XDS and VAQ. My car doesn't have VAQ so I'm shooting in the dark here a bit. I know on the road I can feel the difference between my mechanical diff and the XDS.

The VAQ and XDS are reactionary. To me that means over the course of and autocross run the car is subject to react differently run to run, even in the same corner. My day job is developing OE automotive electrical systems (not at VW, sorry dudes). I'm on the autonomous side, but I imagine VAQ and XDS are very similar. When systems take and interpret data they don't always react the same way because the measurements are imperfect AND in this case the data is coming in at different rates between engine data (CAN - slow) and wheel speed data (sensor - fast). I'm very weary of having an XDS system active and pressing certain brakes without me knowing it. That doesn't seem very predictable to me.

If it were me, it would definitely turn XDS all the way off to see what happens. It may not be the fastest (when VAQ is applied) in the end, but knowing what happens is valuable. And, I'd probably turn the VAQ activity to the MAX or whatever setting.

@xXDavidCXx have you changed your traction control settings and the torque limiter setting? It could be part of the fuel cut issue.
With VCDS: ABS -> Adaptions -> Starting Vibration Control -> Disable (old setting: Strong)

I have changed to “increased traction” now that e-diff tuning is allowed.

I could not find the vibration control on the new OBDELEVEN app for iOS.

I don’t think I was having fuel cut issues later in the season, but def intervention, probably brakes.

 

[bfury5]

So you got the new springs as basically the same dimensions as what came on your normal BCs?

I run hyperco springs, the ones that were spec'd when I ordered my coils. I'm not sure what the free length is, I can check since they're off the car now

Edit: I just checked, they're 7" free length. 800lb.

 

[Gvazquez]

I run hyperco springs, the ones that were spec'd when I ordered my coils. I'm not sure what the free length is, I can check since they're off the car now

Edit: I just checked, they're 7" free length. 800lb.

Sweet thanks for checking that. Why are they off the car? Did I miss something?

 

[bfury5]

Sweet thanks for checking that. Why are they off the car? Did I miss something?

Nothing bad - I took them off for the winter to keep them out of the salt / grime. I'm also sending them back to Redshift to be dynoed just to make sure they're in good shape for next season. Chris said they should be fine, but it's more for peace of mind since the GTI is still my daily (10 events and 12k miles on the coils this year).

 

[sackofcheese]

Guys, help refresh my memory. Which individually available camber plates give the most negative camber?

I only got -2.8 out of my 034 Motorsports dynamic mounts.