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Street Touring Hatchback (STH) discussion/setup

xXDavidCXx

Drag Racing Champion
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Howdy,

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. The restrictions in 14.8.H apply only to the situation where you want to use the allowance in 14.8.H.

8.B, 8.C, and 8.F can all be used simultaneously, but 8.H cannot be used if any of 8.B, 8.C, or 8.F are used. It is perfectly legal on the front of a mk7 to use both CC plates as well as offset bushings in STH.

Mark
Mark,

After reading this and the rules again, like 10 times, I think you are correct. I stand corrected, and dammit if I didn't figure this out sooner.

So, where are the offset bushings?
 

replicate

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Downunder
Yet another reason why I'd love to see the rules go to "no more than 3 degrees of additional camber from stock alignment settings" or something easily understandable and enforceable.

This is how we do it with our State Supersprint rules in Aus. Max -3 and we don’t care how you achieve it. So simple.
 

replicate

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Downunder
This whole thing has sent me on a search for a good adjustable lower control arm. Why is no one making a turnbuckle style lower arm or one that can be shimmed? I found a few arms that have adjustability on the "bushing" side, but were sphericals and they only claimed a little additional camber.

No one can get more than -3 degrees, and there is the issue with the endlinks. It seems like there are enough people trying to get all the camber they can that these hypothetical arms would have a market. Am I missing something?

Has anyone else found a lower arm that can give some real camber? Like -4.5?
TT arms will. I’m -3 with CSS spindles and offset camber tops. TT arms would get me to about -4.5 max I reckon. Maybe more.
 
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xXDavidCXx

Drag Racing Champion
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Found this.

https://www.powerflexusa.com/shop/p...rol-arm-front-bushings-camber-adjustable-2876

At first glance, maybe not legal with the extra metal caps on the outside, but maybe the amount of metal inside the bushing is similar. If so maybe legal.

camber bushing.jpg


Regular below

regular bushing.jpg
 

marka

Ready to race!
Location
Youngstown, OH
Car(s)
2017 GTI
Howdy,

If I weren't lazy, I'd go check my own car but...

Anyone know what the limit w/camber plates & coilover springs is, for camber before you run into the strut tower?

I'm at -3 right now, but I'm thinking I need to be more like -4 to keep these A052s happier.

Mark
 

q74

Go Kart Newbie
Car(s)
R
Has anyone else found a lower arm that can give some real camber? Like -4.5?
Its doable, but it depends on your goals. If you don't care about rules or nvh? Then verkline arms + CSS uprights + vorshlag plates would give you massive camber/caster adjustablity.

Other option is the TT LCA is roughly 10mm wider, with TT ball joints having 6mm of adjustablity, leading to a static camber change (in addition to whatever you have) of between -1 to -2.5 degrees (shock height dependent).
 

Mini7

Autocross Newbie
Location
Charlotte, NC
Car(s)
2017 GTi Sport PP
I think only Verkline does, and it's not ST legal because of spherical bearings.

Verklines is the only ones I know that would get you close. There is 15mm adjustment in the lower ball joint and another 10-11mm in the rod end for additional camber.
892DC037-D740-4A01-88CC-0F3182EC2321.jpeg
475DC984-A1B2-4193-AC3F-082DD33421BE.jpeg
BA1BD01D-7F42-4259-B8AA-359FDD1AF928.jpeg


Based on my recent install. CSS swivels will add an additional 1-degree of negative camber.
 

Gvazquez

Go Kart Champion
Location
North Carolina
Howdy,

If I weren't lazy, I'd go check my own car but...

Anyone know what the limit w/camber plates & coilover springs is, for camber before you run into the strut tower?

I'm at -3 right now, but I'm thinking I need to be more like -4 to keep these A052s happier.

Mark
On BC coilovers the max camber i can achieve is -3 with the plates maxed out
 

bfury5

Drag Racing Champion
Location
CT
Howdy,

If I weren't lazy, I'd go check my own car but...

Anyone know what the limit w/camber plates & coilover springs is, for camber before you run into the strut tower?

I'm at -3 right now, but I'm thinking I need to be more like -4 to keep these A052s happier.

Mark
I'm at 3.2 right now, I still have some room left to slot the top mount holes so I'd say 3.5 is possible. I think in my case the camber plate will hit the inside of the body before the strut will.
 

Gvazquez

Go Kart Champion
Location
North Carolina
I'm at 3.2 right now, I still have some room left to slot the top mount holes so I'd say 3.5 is possible. I think in my case the camber plate will hit the inside of the body before the strut will.
Howd you get so much? Do you have css knuckles or tt lca's?
 

xXDavidCXx

Drag Racing Champion
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Since the season is over I've decided to uninstall a few things and work on a revised Stock + setup.

I took out the front Ohlin strut and springs, and put on Koni FSDs with stock springs.

Then in the rear I replaced the 6 inch 750 spring with an 8 inch 400 spring.

The idea being that this setup is has a similar front to rear suspension hz relationship as my race setup.

And by swapping the front Ohlins for Konis it gives me an opportunity to send the Ohlins in for a revalve.

I straight swapped the springs in the rear, and didn't change the spring perches and it was about perfectly matched ride height to the front.

Gained a little more comfort too, as I suspected.
 

00Zero

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Pittsburgh, Pa
Since the season is over I've decided to uninstall a few things and work on a revised Stock + setup.

I took out the front Ohlin strut and springs, and put on Koni FSDs with stock springs.

Then in the rear I replaced the 6 inch 750 spring with an 8 inch 400 spring.

The idea being that this setup is has a similar front to rear suspension hz relationship as my race setup.

And by swapping the front Ohlins for Konis it gives me an opportunity to send the Ohlins in for a revalve.

I straight swapped the springs in the rear, and didn't change the spring perches and it was about perfectly matched ride height to the front.

Gained a little more comfort too, as I suspected.

Seeing as this has become in my opinion the defacto serious suspension discussion on this forum, my comment/question will be OT but here goes.

@xXDavidCXx, This gives me hope. After driving my GSW for a while I had settled on the rear spring rates need upped to level out the pitchy-ness, the Rear Sway helped but it still feels lazy. From best I can tell this is a bit of what the Clubsport S and MK8 are doing, with the rear being ~1-2% stiffer than the front but a larger split (20%)should be even more stable with less dampening.

I wanted to increase the capability/stability a bit while keeping the stock height and ride to a degree.

My plan is to keep the stock front springs with Bilstein b4's and up the rear to something about 20% stiffer in frequency with either;
1. S3 rear spring, and spacer with Bilstein b6, I think the spring and gas pressure should get me close to my target but I need to call Bilstein to confirm
2. Or piece meal coil over parts w/ 8in 350lbs spring and a matching damper (not sure what would work here)

Other than that I was going to add a 24mm front sway bar to my existing 24.5mm rear (hollow eibach us bar), this should give be about the same front roll stiffness as a GTI with the softer ride rate and keep the balance on the neutral to slight under steer side. I'll probably add BFI fcab and front camber, Eurosport mounts or TT arms. Maybe Meyle HD rear arms depending how the stock brushes look.

I think the tt arms would give about -2.5deg, What is the consensus on a good front camber number on the street with zero toe all around?

Any input you be much appreciated.

-Jonathan
 

xXDavidCXx

Drag Racing Champion
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
Seeing as this has become in my opinion the defacto serious suspension discussion on this forum, my comment/question will be OT but here goes.

@xXDavidCXx, This gives me hope. After driving my GSW for a while I had settled on the rear spring rates need upped to level out the pitchy-ness, the Rear Sway helped but it still feels lazy. From best I can tell this is a bit of what the Clubsport S and MK8 are doing, with the rear being ~1-2% stiffer than the front but a larger split (20%)should be even more stable with less dampening.

I wanted to increase the capability/stability a bit while keeping the stock height and ride to a degree.

My plan is to keep the stock front springs with Bilstein b4's and up the rear to something about 20% stiffer in frequency with either;
1. S3 rear spring, and spacer with Bilstein b6, I think the spring and gas pressure should get me close to my target but I need to call Bilstein to confirm
2. Or piece meal coil over parts w/ 8in 350lbs spring and a matching damper (not sure what would work here)

Other than that I was going to add a 24mm front sway bar to my existing 24.5mm rear (hollow eibach us bar), this should give be about the same front roll stiffness as a GTI with the softer ride rate and keep the balance on the neutral to slight under steer side. I'll probably add BFI fcab and front camber, Eurosport mounts or TT arms. Maybe Meyle HD rear arms depending how the stock brushes look.

I think the tt arms would give about -2.5deg, What is the consensus on a good front camber number on the street with zero toe all around?

Any input you be much appreciated.

-Jonathan
Thanks for the kind words.

There is a lot of good info here, and it goes against what most on this forum accept as the correct way to "mod" their car, but it works and I don't care what other ppl who don't race their cars think.

In your case, I have to ask what your goals are for this setup? This will help me understand your camber situation.
 

00Zero

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Pittsburgh, Pa
Thanks for the kind words.

There is a lot of good info here, and it goes against what most on this forum accept as the correct way to "mod" their car, but it works and I don't care what other ppl who don't race their cars think.

In your case, I have to ask what your goals are for this setup? This will help me understand your camber situation.

The camber is for a purely daily driver car. I like a good back road and currently I'm seeing some additional outer tire wear. Back in the day I was able to get about -1.75deg on my r53 mini with some ireland fixed camber plates and that was great on that car. The extra front end grip and turn-in is what I'm after, with more even wear of course.
 
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