Street Touring Hatchback (STH) discussion/setup

[scrllock]

Race, they have been on for a long time, a few years, who knows how many miles.

these are the ones that have a balljoint right?

 

[GTIfan99]

Race, they have been on for a long time, a few years, who knows how many miles.

I had the race too. Tony had several of the race ones fail on track.

 

[GTIfan99]

these are the ones that have a balljoint right?

No, just a stiffer material.

 

[krs]

I had the race too. Tony had several of the race ones fail on track.

Everything fails.

 

[GTIfan99]

Everything fails.

Two sets in two track days, IIRC.

That's not normal.

 

[xXDavidCXx]

Two sets in two track days, IIRC.

That's not normal.

I think he's the only one. I've never heard of anyone else with that kind of failure rate, or any failure for that matter.

I would not hesitate to get another set.

 

[GTIfan99]

I think he's the only one. I've never heard of anyone else with that kind of failure rate, or any failure for that matter.

I would not hesitate to get another set.

I can't remember who I bought mine from, but I bought from a forum member that had a set fail and was sent a new set, then sold them.

 

[scrllock]

No, just a stiffer material.

oh, yeah, mine failed quick too. powerflex black non-adjustable.

 

[krs]

Two sets in two track days, IIRC.

That's not normal.

I must be a weak ass driver, I'd have no concern going back to them if I needed, unless I found a more comparable option.

 

[scrllock]

it's very common if you go on the EU track forums. the apex ring rental guys indicated the same:

Mine was quite noisy when the whiteline/superpros failed, the powerflex lasted a bit longer, maybe 6k miles instead of 3k.

I thought the ones with balljoints instead of a straight bushing would do better, but iirc Tony and Adam had similar issues with the whiteline and superpro balljoint versions too.

I wonder if hard-driving without elevation change, i.e. parking lot autocross, is much less prone to failure.

 

[DerHase]

I had the race too. Tony had several of the race ones fail on track.

The Powerflex forward bushings have since been redesigned. I had one set (old 2pc version) wear out over the course of a year of track + autocross use.

1:00 mark:

Quick clip of what the old vs new ones look like. New ones are 3pc with an extra "sleeve" on the non-adjuster end.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QzWiu-DiH0k

And since we're talking about those forward bushings... this makes it hella easy to remove the old ones fast:
https://youtube.com/shorts/Ls21jSJv6NQ?si=wP40j3X0_DSWDk5o





It's the rear LCA bushings that I've had a hell of a time keeping together, fronts are fine.

Destroyed a set of the Whiteline spherical-encapsulated-in-poly rear bushings in <10 autocross runs which sucked ass... a week before going to VIR:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4t4HUG9pbEs

In that you can also see Whiteline regular poly bushings failed on a buddy's Alltrack in a very short amount of time as well.

Poly is not meant to flex. It's meant to rotate. Works fine the forward location, it's the worst possible thing you could put in the rear location.

The only options for that location IMO are OEM rubber or true sphericals if you expect anything remotely reliable. I've never "worn out" any OEM bushings in that location - it was strictly to try and solidify them a bit. I DID wear out 2 sets of BFI rubber bushings though. First set torn over the course of a year (also covered in the suspension intro video somewhere I think), and I kept a closer eye on that brand new set and found them beginning to separate after just one weekend on track.

The easy button IMO is OEM MK8R LCAs complete - they can be had for $130ea and they have very tiny voids in the rubber, considerably more dense than OEM MK7, but still small voids to allow the needed up-down flex that the control arm requires.

Not STH legal, but I went straight to JXB sphericals in the rear location (with those updated Powerflex forward bushings). Funny enough they've been dead silent with zero noises. I only went this direction because I needed more caster to offset the unwanted effects of the Whiteline ball joints which fuck you out of a little less than a degree of caster since the ball is not offset forward like it is on OEM ball joints.

I'm absolutely sick and tired of fucking with suspension stuff on this platform. IMO as far as camber and bushings up front go my recommendations would be:

STH Legal:
- Whatever coilovers that get you as much camber at the upper mount as possible
- MK8R LCAs + Powerflex forward camber bushing

XA:
- CSS knuckles - I wish I'd just spent the money to do these early on. Adding camber via reducing the included angle means that you do not lose the added camber as you turn the wheel - which happens with all camber plates or LCA extensions. It's sort of a similar concept as clocking camber plates at an angle to give camber + caster simultaneously... except it's an OEM engineered part.
- As much camber as you can get at the upper mount
- MK8R LCAs, add the Powerflex bushing if desired for more camber.


Avoiding aftermarket lower ball joints at all costs is the way to go.


I know this deviated a bit off topic for an STH thread, but figured I'd just put it all out there.

 

[tigeo]

Superpro Duroball....or notsoduroball

 

[xXDavidCXx]

First event of the season, and now on Yokes and Stage 1 high torque 93 tune.

Was good for 1st in STH and 14/144 PAX and 20/144 RAW.

If you guy are not using rear toe out you are doing it wrong. The car just goes where I point it, hardly any understeer, which really is a driver problem.

Edit: This run I hung it out a bit, and there was some scrubbing of the tires

 

[GTIfan99]

First event of the season, and now on Yokes and Stage 1 high torque 93 tune.

Was good for 1st in STH and 14/144 PAX and 20/144 RAW.

If you guy are not using rear toe out you are doing it wrong. The car just goes where I point it, hardly any understeer, which really is a driver problem.

Edit: This run I hung it out a bit, and there was some scrubbing of the tires

I used toe out in the mk7.5. What's your rear camber? I found I needed -1.8 when I ran toe out in the rear, or it was too loose.