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Street Touring Hatchback (STH) discussion/setup

xXDavidCXx

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
When I was first talking this over with RedShift Chris mentioned the MK7 is capable of about -3 degrees camber. I see some things around about the top strut hole maybe not allowing so much because of the dampening adjustment, but I think the RedShift Coils are inverted so this should be possible?
I don't think the fronts are inverted, which is one of the reasons I don't like their product.
 

Roald

Go Kart Champion
Location
Ohio
Car(s)
GTI mk 7 2017
I don't think the fronts are inverted, which is one of the reasons I don't like their product.
I'll be finding out first hand hopefully by the end of march. If so, and I need more, it looks like I'll be looking at those bushings sooner rather than later
 

bfury5

Autocross Champion
Location
CT
Okay yeah I've spent a lot of time looking over the suspension threads in the last few months. I've got the f/r super pro 24/22mm bars on order and I'll get better links as well before the install. I know these are on the softer side for Sway bars but I believe it will still give me the ability to have some wheel indepence on the more dynamic surface I run at on occasion and they're adjustable.
I also fully intend to get an alignment after I install everything and so far I'm looking to start with something like this and work from there:


When I was first talking this over with RedShift Chris mentioned the MK7 is capable of about -3 degrees camber. I see some things around about the top strut hole maybe not allowing so much because of the dampening adjustment, but I think the RedShift Coils are inverted so this should be possible?
If so-

Front
-2 /-2.5 camber . I still need to manage DD tire wear. Possibly up to the full -3
zero toe. - I see folks say "as much as possible up front" But would an extra .5 upfront with a bushing be that big? Especially beyond -3?

no plans for caster adjustment via parts at this time.

Rear
zero toe - then possibly up to 1/16" out on each side for rotation. I think I recall this being only +1 degree or there about
Whatever max camber I can claim from the rear.



Beyond this I would say that the front bushing is moving up the list. I completely misunderstood which I even needed. so this is much less of a big deal. $100~ for better response is a great trade off I think.
Then an intercooler- still trying to decide which. I think I'm down to the SMICs - APR- Mishimoto and IE. There's a cts that's significantly less expensive but I'm not getting a good vibe from reviews on quality.
Fronts on the redshift are not inverted, and didn't seem to be an issue in practice. I had -3.2 with the redshift coils and camber plates max'd. No issues with DD or tire wear. The difference between -3.2 and -3.6 (after adding the front offset bushings) is very noticeable. You have so much more grip on turn in and can therefore turn in harder without push. It will also help tire wear.

If you're doing the offset camber bushing, do the other bushing too while you have the LCA out.

I "only" ran rear camber at ~1.8-1.9deg. I had good wear so I never went any higher. remember rear suspension will gain camber as it travels, unlike the front. 1/16" total toe out in the rear is a good place to start, or even starting at 0.
 

Roald

Go Kart Champion
Location
Ohio
Car(s)
GTI mk 7 2017
I would get the front lower forward offset bushing for more camber.

https://www.powerflexusa.com/shop/p...ont-bushings-camber-adjustable-2876#attr=1795

And yes, combined with an adjustable top plate is legal.
I was looking this up on the powerflex site and it says it fits...
However both fcp and uro say it doesn't fit the mk7. I assume the retailers are wrong and just didn't get the memo from Powerflex?
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-vw-bushing-powerflex-pff85-501gx2#fitment
https://www.urotuning.com/products/...p-mk2-audi-pff85-501gx2?variant=8384915669047
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
Fronts on the redshift are not inverted, and didn't seem to be an issue in practice. I had -3.2 with the redshift coils and camber plates max'd. No issues with DD or tire wear. The difference between -3.2 and -3.6 (after adding the front offset bushings) is very noticeable. You have so much more grip on turn in and can therefore turn in harder without push. It will also help tire wear.

If you're doing the offset camber bushing, do the other bushing too while you have the LCA out.

I "only" ran rear camber at ~1.8-1.9deg. I had good wear so I never went any higher. remember rear suspension will gain camber as it travels, unlike the front. 1/16" total toe out in the rear is a good place to start, or even starting at 0.
It doesn't seem to really matter front camber is, I've found -1.6 to -1.8 and zero toe in the rear just works. Whether I was at -2.5 front or -0.8 when in GS.
 

bfury5

Autocross Champion
Location
CT

MonkeyMD

Autocross Champion
Not that I'm getting anything at this point, but would an inverted coilover be that much more beneficial than the redshift?

If so, what options are there for custom spring inverted coilovers.

I tried searching and only came up with Racingline & Ceika
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
Not that I'm getting anything at this point, but would an inverted coilover be that much more beneficial than the redshift?

If so, what options are there for custom spring inverted coilovers.

I tried searching and only came up with Racingline & Ceika

Redshift is inverted for strut applications.

Most of the higher end stuff can be ordered with custom rates too of course. Ohlins on the "lower" end of mcs/ast/jrz alternatives.
 

MonkeyMD

Autocross Champion
Redshift is inverted for strut applications.

Most of the higher end stuff can be ordered with custom rates too of course. Ohlins on the "lower" end of mcs/ast/jrz alternatives.
I thought that was only their RM series, not the DR
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
I thought that was only their RM series, not the DR
not sure but redshift moved away from BC. and maybe it's only for the new double adjustables?

7) All strut applications use inverted strut design for better side-load strength. Also for struts, the hydraulic line to the remote canister exists the top of the shock (above the camber plate) for easy installation.
 
Last edited:

DerHase

Autocross Champion
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2019 GTI Rabbit
I had poked around at the bushings before the end of 2022. I made and saved a whole parts list along with the press. Came back after the first of the year and the SuperPro bushing had increased in price by a significant amount. Enough for me to reconsider doing them at all. Maybe they were just on sale at the time. I don't know. But yikes. As such I've moved them down the list pretty far given the perceived bang/buck ratio.

I went down a whole rabbit hole there for a bit. I think I may have overestimated the cost on the bushings. I basically priced out a complete swap, and now I'm realizing I need like ..2?
Front Control Lower -Inner Rear
Rear Trailing Arm Bushing Kit
^ Is that right?

How beneficial will the intercooler really be for autox? It seems a lot of the heat soak would occur after the lap is complete? - sorry I'm not sure if this thread is the right place for this discussion. Has anyone done testing in this environment?

In your experience how much will I regret not doing a FSB and or RSB as well? I was thinking based on the information floating around and my spring rates that maybe I could get away w/o doing them.
Buuutttttt, the HR kit is on sale right now over at Uro. And I am going to have the thing apart for the coilover install....

As @Rmcnelly said I logged his car at an event last year (was trying to figure out why he lacked power towards the end of the course... his DSG was not downshifting to 2nd and stayed in 3rd was the answer).


You can see how his IATs never even came close to reasonable temperatures.

With an aftermarket tune, there's no telling at what temps they have it set to start pulling timing, but on a STOCK tune, anything over 86F IATs is where timing starts getting pulled. If Rick's tune didn't have these tables touched, it was pulling 5 to 7 degrees of timing at any given point in that run.

1677768221523.png



This video is of my own car on track in 82F ambient temps with STOCK TUNE and STOCK INTERCOOLER. It's friggin terrible.



Unfortunately I don't have a good apples to apples comparison with stock tune, my DO88 IC, in temps as high as that day, but this is the data from 15min into track session at VIR (same track as the video further above) now with a tune. Worst I saw was essentially 20F over ambient at any given time that actually mattered (MAT = manifold air temp)

1677770143535.png


The lower speeds are from transient speed changes - the measured temp increases when you're off throttle. In my opinion I believe that while the indicated temp goes up, I don't believe the air going into the engine is actually as hot as indicated.

I'll be gathering similar data autocrossing this year... what I'm really looking forward to is logging stuff like wheel spin etc out of corners. Working on a spicier tune myself and will be implementing a spark based traction control that a few other guys have been testing.

Video of the above data on track for reference with the DO88 IC and mild tune.

 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
As @Rmcnelly said I logged his car at an event last year (was trying to figure out why he lacked power towards the end of the course... his DSG was not downshifting to 2nd and stayed in 3rd was the answer).


You can see how his IATs never even came close to reasonable temperatures.

With an aftermarket tune, there's no telling at what temps they have it set to start pulling timing, but on a STOCK tune, anything over 86F IATs is where timing starts getting pulled. If Rick's tune didn't have these tables touched, it was pulling 5 to 7 degrees of timing at any given point in that run.

View attachment 274644


This video is of my own car on track in 82F ambient temps with STOCK TUNE and STOCK INTERCOOLER. It's friggin terrible.



Unfortunately I don't have a good apples to apples comparison with stock tune, my DO88 IC, in temps as high as that day, but this is the data from 15min into track session at VIR (same track as the video further above) now with a tune. Worst I saw was essentially 20F over ambient at any given time that actually mattered (MAT = manifold air temp)

View attachment 274645

The lower speeds are from transient speed changes - the measured temp increases when you're off throttle. In my opinion I believe that while the indicated temp goes up, I don't believe the air going into the engine is actually as hot as indicated.

I'll be gathering similar data autocrossing this year... what I'm really looking forward to is logging stuff like wheel spin etc out of corners. Working on a spicier tune myself and will be implementing a spark based traction control that a few other guys have been testing.

Video of the above data on track for reference with the DO88 IC and mild tune.

What are you tuning with?
 

xXDavidCXx

Autocross Champion
Location
AZ
Car(s)
2017 GTI SE DSG
As @Rmcnelly said I logged his car at an event last year (was trying to figure out why he lacked power towards the end of the course... his DSG was not downshifting to 2nd and stayed in 3rd was the answer).


You can see how his IATs never even came close to reasonable temperatures.

With an aftermarket tune, there's no telling at what temps they have it set to start pulling timing, but on a STOCK tune, anything over 86F IATs is where timing starts getting pulled. If Rick's tune didn't have these tables touched, it was pulling 5 to 7 degrees of timing at any given point in that run.
Did your buddy try to call for a manual downshift?
 

mrmatto

Autocross Champion
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Car(s)
2024 GTI DSG
As @Rmcnelly said I logged his car at an event last year (was trying to figure out why he lacked power towards the end of the course... his DSG was not downshifting to 2nd and stayed in 3rd was the answer).


You can see how his IATs never even came close to reasonable temperatures.

With an aftermarket tune, there's no telling at what temps they have it set to start pulling timing, but on a STOCK tune, anything over 86F IATs is where timing starts getting pulled. If Rick's tune didn't have these tables touched, it was pulling 5 to 7 degrees of timing at any given point in that run.

View attachment 274644


This video is of my own car on track in 82F ambient temps with STOCK TUNE and STOCK INTERCOOLER. It's friggin terrible.



Unfortunately I don't have a good apples to apples comparison with stock tune, my DO88 IC, in temps as high as that day, but this is the data from 15min into track session at VIR (same track as the video further above) now with a tune. Worst I saw was essentially 20F over ambient at any given time that actually mattered (MAT = manifold air temp)

View attachment 274645

The lower speeds are from transient speed changes - the measured temp increases when you're off throttle. In my opinion I believe that while the indicated temp goes up, I don't believe the air going into the engine is actually as hot as indicated.

I'll be gathering similar data autocrossing this year... what I'm really looking forward to is logging stuff like wheel spin etc out of corners. Working on a spicier tune myself and will be implementing a spark based traction control that a few other guys have been testing.

Video of the above data on track for reference with the DO88 IC and mild tune.

That’s impressive consistent performance from your IC! One of the benefits of the SMIC. My FMIC is good for a handful of pulls and even decent at autocross too, but it starts to heat soak and lose its ability to cool as well much sooner since it’s a smaller heat sink.
 
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