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Review: APR SCU (DSC Controller)

yakboyslim

Go Kart Champion
APR says they plan to release their own software. I don't think they ever will, people will buy it without.

DSC is always quick to mention that their tuning software is engineering software, not really meant for users. They've also been planning to release a user friendly version, since the beginning of time.

My sense is that with the APR and other branded units being sold with the advertisement of coming pre-tuned in some special way, that they don't think they need to support any issues with user tuning. So saying you can't do it is easier for them than actually supporting the product. The APR controllers are not tuned any different than the base DSC, the base files are bit for bit identical unless they have started shipping with some updated file.

That's my pessimism, but unless they have drastically changed the firmware on APR units to not handshake with the DSC software (which lets be frank APR would not do here since it requires additional effort over not doing anything) then there is nothing on the controller to prevent the files from being loaded by the DSC tuning software. My bet is it still works.
 

2019 Golf R

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Charlotte, NC
Are they referring only to APR (on our platform)? Doesn't APR have their own software anyway? Seems I remember reading they intended to make their software a little more accessible.

Also, as I understand it, APR and DSC worked together on this. The petty side of my mind senses a falling out... could it be related to the CAN bus issues? :unsure:
Yeah, not sure - I'm going to try anyway but it's interesting. APR is the only one that I know of with a relabel.

APR hasn't replied to my messages in their forum group yet - asked what to do/if they'd be releasing software. Let's see what they say...maybe it's not towards their relabel.
 

Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles
We @'ed the APR rep several times in the other thread, not that they are obligated to respond. They (the forum rep) may not have any worthwhile information on this subject anyway, although in my eyes no response is a response of sorts.
My sense is that with the APR and other branded units being sold with the advertisement of coming pre-tuned in some special way, that they don't think they need to support any issues with user tuning. So saying you can't do it is easier for them than actually supporting the product. The APR controllers are not tuned any different than the base DSC, the base files are bit for bit identical unless they have started shipping with some updated file.
Excellent point here. Even with the tuning being the same, any white label's claim that their tune is different fully absolves DSC of the obligation to support. The white label(er) would need to have said (with agreement from DSC) that tuning was provided and supported by DSC.

I expect we'll never know the numbers but I would bet more of these are sold by APR than by DSC. Not knowing how that shakes out financially I would not, if I were DSC, agree to support APR's customers unless without pretty good (monetary) incentive.
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
Are they referring only to APR (on our platform)? Doesn't APR have their own software anyway? Seems I remember reading they intended to make their software a little more accessible.

Also, as I understand it, APR and DSC worked together on this. The petty side of my mind senses a falling out... could it be related to the CAN bus issues? :unsure:
no, the APR calibration is identical. so was the firmware, so unless they've changed something, you can tune it with DSC's software.

I really doubt APR cares, they did zero due diligence on the product before re-badging it.
 

Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles
no, the APR calibration is identical. so was the firmware, so unless they've changed something, you can tune it with DSC's software.

I really doubt APR cares, they did zero due diligence on the product before re-badging it.
Yea for sure, I was just responding their (DSC's) wording, mentioning private label suspension controllers given that on our platform we know the private label is APR and that the modules are identical outside of aesthetics. So what they really mean is "we are not supporting you with tuning private label suspension controllers."
 

HuntR

Go Kart Newbie
Location
Seattle
APR says they plan to release their own software. I don't think they ever will, people will buy it without.

DSC is always quick to mention that their tuning software is engineering software, not really meant for users. They've also been planning to release a user friendly version, since the beginning of time.

My sense is that with the APR and other branded units being sold with the advertisement of coming pre-tuned in some special way, that they don't think they need to support any issues with user tuning. So saying you can't do it is easier for them than actually supporting the product. The APR controllers are not tuned any different than the base DSC, the base files are bit for bit identical unless they have started shipping with some updated file.

That's my pessimism, but unless they have drastically changed the firmware on APR units to not handshake with the DSC software (which lets be frank APR would not do here since it requires additional effort over not doing anything) then there is nothing on the controller to prevent the files from being loaded by the DSC tuning software. My bet is it still works.
What is this here under 'Tech resources'... is this APR's tuning software?

https://www.goapr.com/products/software/scu_upgrade/parts/SUS00020

I'm interested in this controller, but just following this thread for now.
 

yakboyslim

Go Kart Champion
That's genuinely surprising. I'll be interested to see what the software looks like.

I doubt they made a change to firmware though, so I still bet you could use DSC software too.
 

yakboyslim

Go Kart Champion
Lol
1686275638874.png



It's just a rebadged DSC tuning software, but they did make it so the file format is .aprf instead of .pdts. And given the error that it gives when I try to open a .pdts file that is renamed .aprf they probably just changed the checksum algorithm, which I never really figured out anyway.

I would not be surprised if you could use either to read/write from the APR controller, but you will have trouble opening saved files in the other one.
 

2019 Golf R

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Charlotte, NC
Something I've noticed - The mode button light only stays on in Comfort or Race. When I select Normal, the light goes out.

Need to load up OBDeleven and check on the gateway.
 

Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles
@2019 Golf R That's correct factory operation for the mode button, to let you know you're not in Normal. Athough you can code that behavior out in the BCM adaptations.

IDE06507-ENG140243-Button in center console-Zusatzcodierung Fahrprofiltaster hat keine LEDLED not installed
This is how I've coded it in my BCM, translates roughly to "Additional coding for the Driving Profile Mode Button LED." This refers to the amber LED which is separate from the white that is always when on the interior lights are on. I have it coded to "LED not installed" so the amber never turns on, regardless of mode.

You could also go the "nuclear" route of removing Pin 6 of the console buttons (or the more difficult "nuclear" route of removing pin 21 of BCM Plug C)

EX23 is the set of buttons. E735 is the mode button. Circled in red is the amber LED.
Capture.JPG
 

2019 Golf R

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Charlotte, NC
@2019 Golf R That's correct factory operation for the mode button, to let you know you're not in Normal. Athough you can code that behavior out in the BCM adaptations.

IDE06507-ENG140243-Button in center console-Zusatzcodierung Fahrprofiltaster hat keine LEDLED not installed
This is how I've coded it in my BCM, translates roughly to "Additional coding for the Driving Profile Mode Button LED." This refers to the amber LED which is separate from the white that is always when on the interior lights are on. I have it coded to "LED not installed" so the amber never turns on, regardless of mode.

You could also go the "nuclear" route of removing Pin 6 of the console buttons (or the more difficult "nuclear" route of removing pin 21 of BCM Plug C)

EX23 is the set of buttons. E735 is the mode button. Circled in red is the amber LED.
View attachment 283386
That's great news - ok good...Thank you for showing me how it works too - I don't mind the behavior...just goes to show how much I've kept the R in comfort mode as my daily driver hahaha

Was switching between modes today to see if I could tell a difference between normal and comfort/race. Normal does seem slightly stiffer than comfort, with a little more rebound response over potholes (esp in the rear) but until I get the software installed and do VCDS i can't say for sure it's not placebo.
 

2019 Golf R

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Charlotte, NC
Just checked the gateway with OBDeleven - it is a 3Q0 after all. However I was able to pull some codes and a log which i'm attaching here.

I do have euro taillights on the car so that explains some of these codes. The gateway codes at the end are interesting.
 

Attachments

  • OBDeleven_Log.txt
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Cuzoe

Autocross Champion
Location
Los Angeles
Yours being a facelift vehicle a 3Q0 gateway should be expected. The ambient lighting wouldn't work without it (not really lighting I guess, but ambient color selection for the infotainment and digital dash).
Gateway code is from 6/3... about when you installed the APR/DSC controller so that's right. You should clear all codes then take a scan.

No reason having Euro tail lights would mean having faults unless you haven't coded something properly. Not that it matters if everything works as you want.

You won't be looking for static faults in the gateway to confirm the modes though...
No need to drive the car for it, just need to have the car on (not even engine running). I'm sure things are slightly different with VCDS, but OBDeleven instructions might be close enough.
  1. Figure out what version gateway you have (should start with 5Q0 or 3Q0). This should be in the module info somewhere.
  2. Then go into the gateway module and look at live data.
  3. The live data parameter we want says something to the effect of "damping mode"
  4. While watching this data you can cycle through different driving modes using the button or the radio.
Driving mode selectedWhat you should getWhat you will get if DSC and Gateway aren't getting along.
Comfort12
Normal22
Sport/Race33
Individual1, 2 or 32
 

2019 Golf R

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Charlotte, NC
Yours being a facelift vehicle a 3Q0 gateway should be expected. The ambient lighting wouldn't work without it (not really lighting I guess, but ambient color selection for the infotainment and digital dash).
Gateway code is from 6/3... about when you installed the APR/DSC controller so that's right. You should clear all codes then take a scan.

No reason having Euro tail lights would mean having faults unless you haven't coded something properly. Not that it matters if everything works as you want.

You won't be looking for static faults in the gateway to confirm the modes though...

In OBDeleven I have a few options to track driving mode. the button selector does show every mode when i just have live data on driving selector but when i use the driving profile for damping, it shows as not available. this is with and without the engine running.

Here are the options in OBDeleven:

Selected Driving Profile
Driving Profile Selection, system status
Driving profile history data 1-4
Driving profile selection statistics
Status, driving profile selection for engine
Status, driving profile selection for start-stop
Status, driving profile selection for transmission
Status, driving profile selection for power steering
Status, driving profile selection for damping adjustment
Driving profile selection button
Driving profile selection system substate
Driving profile selection coordinator retry state
Driving profile selection coordinator BAP state
Driving profile selection Driver Operations
Driving Profile selection functions master preliminary

a few others

then this one is interesting
Status, driving profile selection for oper. mode selection
 
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